Crime Between Prersons of Different Races

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

If in this encounter the Black guy had his own gun, and he shot the White guy three times and killed him... would you call that "involuntary manslaughter"?

Much would depend on details that haven't been provided for your scenario.

If the black guy intended to kill the white guy, it would be murder.

If the black guy committed a felony during the confrontation, it would also be murder.

If the black guy was provoked into a rage by finding the white guy in bed with his wife, it would be voluntary manslaughter.

If the black guy committed a misdemeanor during the confrontation, it would be involuntary manslaughter.

If the black guy did nothing wrong and was attacked, it would be self defense. The black guy would have committed no crime at all.

maxdancona wrote:

Or does this have to do with race.

My position touches on race in that I oppose Black Lives Matter goons and their push to prevent police officers from defending themselves when black people try to murder them.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

As is so often the case, Oralloy is lying.

Setanta has a big mouth, but he's all talk, and it's empty talk at that. He cannot provide examples of untrue statements from any of my posts.

Setanta wrote:

Arbery was not assualting anyone.

Wrong again. The video shows him go around the front of the truck to Travis McMichael and violently try to wrestle the shotgun out of his hands. He does not break off his attack until after he receives a second shotgun blast to the chest.

Setanta wrote:

This is just like that bizarre, hateful, racist crap Oralloy came up with in regard to Black Lives Matter, to the effect that BLM wanted to murder police officers.

Telling the truth about BLM goons is hardly racism. They do indeed argue that police officers should be prevented from defending themselves when black people try to murder them.

0 Replies

@oralloy,

Let's take this hypothetical...

Two black guys with guns are waiting in a truck to ambush a White guy. One of the Black guys gets out of the truck to attack the White guy. The White guy fights back. The Black guy shoots him three times.

In this case, where the Black guys are waiting in a truck to attack the White guy... is this murder? Or can you argue that since the White guy fought back it was OK for them to shoot and kill him.

I don't know whether the armed guys in the truck intended to kill anyone. But they started the fight and then shot and killed someone because in an unarmed struggle the person being attacked fought back.

This is ridiculous. You are saying that you can grab someone, and if they push you away then you are legally allowed to shoot. It makes no sense.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

In this case, where the Black guys are waiting in a truck to attack the White guy... is this murder?

If they intended to kill him when they attacked him: first degree murder.

If they intended to cripple or maim him when they attacked him: first degree murder.

If they intended to give him a simple beating (no life-altering injuries), and his resistance to their beating was no particular threat to them: first degree murder.

If they intended to give him a simple beating (no life-altering injuries), and he turned the tables on them and they now feared for their lives: involuntary manslaughter.

maxdancona wrote:

I don't know whether the armed guys in the truck intended to kill anyone.

It's pretty clear they only wanted to confront and question the jogger.

maxdancona wrote:

But they started the fight

Does confronting the jogger and trying to ask him questions count as starting a fight?

maxdancona wrote:

and then shot and killed someone because in an unarmed struggle the person being attacked fought back.

Since the jogger was trying to take the shotgun away from Travis, it wasn't really an unarmed struggle. He could have killed them with the shotgun had he gained control over it.

maxdancona wrote:

You are saying that you can grab someone, and if they push you away then you are legally allowed to shoot. It makes no sense.

Travis and Gregory McMichael did not attempt to grab the jogger.

I'm unsure how suggesting that involuntary manslaughter charges are appropriate is saying that they are legally allowed to shoot.

There are several misdemeanors that they could fairly be charged with for chasing down a jogger and confronting him with a shotgun. And under Georgia law, a death connected to a misdemeanor can be charged as involuntary manslaughter.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

If you were unarmed, and where confronted by two black guys with guns who "wanted to talk" and then grabbed you... what would you do?

I would keep walking (or running). If they grabbed me, I am going to react badly. I may reach for the gun (not knowing what their intentions are), that might be my best chance... I don't want a gun pointed at me.

People don't have the right to accost me on the street if I don't want to talk to them. If someone tries to accost you with a gun... you might just make a grab for the gun. It makes perfect sense (your other option is to give in and be at their mercy).

1 Reply

Oralloy never met a dead black person that didn't deserve it. Logic dictates there could be no other way. If a black man cooperates and has his hands up in the air, well, he once double dipped eating bean dip at the age of four, illustrating a natural inclination to thuggery. The shooter has no alternate choice in the matter.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

I've never met a dead black person period.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

If you were unarmed, and where confronted by two black guys with guns who "wanted to talk" and then grabbed you... what would you do?
I would keep walking (or running). If they grabbed me, I am going to react badly. I am certainly going to reach for the gun (not knowing what their intentions are).

Where are you getting this stuff about grabbing?

Travis and Gregory McMichael did not attempt to grab the jogger.

maxdancona wrote:

People don't have the right to accost me on the street if I don't want to talk to them.

I think freedom of speech might cover accosting so long as it isn't persistent enough to become stalking.

maxdancona wrote:

If someone tries to accost you with a gun... you might just make a grab for the gun. It makes perfect sense (your other option is to give in and be at their mercy).

I concur.

2 Replies

@oralloy,

Quote:

Travis and Gregory McMichael did not attempt to grab the jogger.

Why do you think they got out of the truck?

OK... let's figure out where your line is.

If it is a fact that the shooter grabbed the jogger first... would that change your opinion. In that case, would it be murder?

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Quote:

This is just like that bizarre, hateful, racist crap Oralloy came up with in regard to Black Lives Matter,

He said BLM was violent. That is true. He said they chanted "we want dead cops". That is true. It does not make him a racist. You just love calling people names and never produce any proof of why they should be called that. Here is your chance.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

engineer wrote:

They are pretty much all over the news. Rather than give more examples, try this query for racially motivated murders in the last month.

Engineer is changing the question. The original question was about "crime". Engineer is making it about "hate crime".

That is a another interesting question. But it is also a dodge.

Goofbucket. Do you not see the racism tag? Only the author of the thread can tag threads. He literally is making a thread about hate crimes. You're reading and observational skills ain't so strong.

1 Reply

@tsarstepan,

Quote:

You're reading and observational skills ain't so strong.

You missed with that punch there slugger. You might want to try that one again. If you are going to make a childish swipe at someone's "reading skills"... you might want to check your own work. I will wait.

(What's really funny is that four of your little bubblehead friends upthumbed you for this effort, so much for "observational skills").

0 Replies

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

maxdancona wrote:
If you were unarmed, and where confronted by two black guys with guns who "wanted to talk" and then grabbed you... what would you do?
I would keep walking (or running). If they grabbed me, I am going to react badly. I am certainly going to reach for the gun (not knowing what their intentions are).

Where are you getting this stuff about grabbing?

Travis and Gregory McMichael did not attempt to grab the jogger.

maxdancona wrote:
People don't have the right to accost me on the street if I don't want to talk to them.

I think freedom of speech might cover accosting so long as it isn't persistent enough to become stalking.

maxdancona wrote:
If someone tries to accost you with a gun... you might just make a grab for the gun. It makes perfect sense (your other option is to give in and be at their mercy).

I concur.

So in this case, if the same thing happened with you as the jogger... you would have gotten killed too.

And you still think it wasn't murder?

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

I know it wasn't murder.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Why do you think they got out of the truck?

To confront the jogger who was ignoring them.

maxdancona wrote:

OK... let's figure out where your line is.
If it is a fact that the shooter grabbed the jogger first... would that change your opinion. In that case, would it be murder?

It would depend on the level of threat that the jogger posed as he resisted them.

If the jogger's resistance posed no threat to them when they killed him, first degree murder.

If they feared for their lives, involuntary manslaughter.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Get real Oralloy!

You are out walking on the road minding your own business, and two Black men with guns say "Boy! come over here we want to talk to you".

What to do you do? (I would ignore them, or maybe tell them to "**** off").

If they step in front of you to block your path to insist that you comply. What do you do then?

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Get real Oralloy!

Manslaughter statutes are very real. But you are free to disagree with them of course.

maxdancona wrote:

What to do you do?

I don't know. I'll let you know what I do if it ever happens to me.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Oralloy, you are dodging the key question.

What you seem to be implying is that two men can block your path and demand that you speak to them. They can block your path, and if you resist and get killed... it is your fault (not murder).

Would you obediently comply to these men?

If you can't answer this question, then your position on this shooting makes zero sense.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Oralloy, you are dodging the key question.

I've answered all your questions.

maxdancona wrote:

What you seem to be implying is that two men can block your path and demand that you speak to them. They can block your path, and if you resist and get killed... it is your fault (not murder).

The severity of their crime would depend on how much of a threat I was to them.

I'm not sure how you manage to equate "manslaughter" with "my fault".

maxdancona wrote:

Would you obediently comply to these men?

How should I know? I've never been in any of these hypothetical stressful scenarios that you keep concocting.

I suspect that I might try communication before I launched a fight to the death against someone who was blocking my path and saying he wanted to talk to me.

maxdancona wrote:

If you can't answer this question, then your position on this shooting makes zero sense.

That manslaughter should be prosecuted as manslaughter makes perfect sense.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

So these two Black men who have guns have followed you. They are blocking your path and demanding that you stop and talk to them.

They will be judged by how much of a threat you are to them? (If you were a threat to them, they wouldn't be blocking your path).

This is ridiculous.

1 Reply

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