5
   

Trump, be a leader, not a blamer.

 
 
goldberg
 
  5  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2020 10:11 pm
@oralloy,
I'd prefer to let Trump speak for himself.
https://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/21/politics/donald-trump-election-democrat/index.html
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2020 10:26 pm
@goldberg,
I don't care much what he says.

As long as he protects America from progressives, I'm happy to vote for him.
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2020 10:34 pm
@goldberg,
Quote:
Now I know why aliens don't have the guts to invade earth. Because we have Trump.

Are you Blatham's sock? Just curious.
goldberg
 
  5  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2020 11:17 pm
@coldjoint,
Negative. I'm Trump's valet. I know what he did with some models in his digs. Just tell that to National Enquirer.
0 Replies
 
goldberg
 
  5  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2020 11:26 pm
@oralloy,
Trump considers the despotic Putin a friend. That says it all.
0 Replies
 
goldberg
 
  5  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2020 11:32 pm
@oralloy,
Edmund Burke would have called Trump a member of the landed gentry, not even a nob. Typically, a member of the the landed gentry is stigmatized as a flesh-eater in literature-by which I mean people think such sorts are selfish and abrasive.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 7 Apr, 2020 12:09 am
@goldberg,
As long as he protects America from progressives, Mr. Trump is all right in my book.
goldberg
 
  4  
Reply Tue 7 Apr, 2020 04:52 am
@oralloy,
Progressives? You mean Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio Cortez? Are you averse to social activism? Then what about the Tea Party movement organised by conservatives? Could you tell me the aim of the Tea Party movement? It was just a party? They were looking for new lovers?
goldberg
 
  4  
Reply Tue 7 Apr, 2020 04:56 am
@goldberg,
Rock on, Ivanka Trump. Let's twerk for Trumpism.
livinglava
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 7 Apr, 2020 08:07 am
@goldberg,
goldberg wrote:

Progressives? You mean Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio Cortez? Are you averse to social activism? Then what about the Tea Party movement organised by conservatives? Could you tell me the aim of the Tea Party movement? It was just a party? They were looking for new lovers?

I don't think anyone is against open civil discourse about different ideas for policy, economics, etc.

I think the problem with progressivism and social activism is when it crosses the line from discussing and persuading others about ideas to implementing in ways that undermine/ignore dissent.

Now you could say that many things that exist as the status quo today were achieved by undermining/ignoring dissent, and that is a reasonable point; and the question is how to go back and re-open cultural/economic norms for discussion that have been established as the status quo when anti-progressives are resistant to opening up such things for discussion.

It shouldn't be the case that social movements, corporations, etc. think that if they can just get their interests established as the status quo, that they will be beyond the reach of dissent. Dissent and consent are two sides of the same coin. In order to have consent, there has to be the possibility of dissent. Likewise, if people try to abuse the power of dissent to override other dissent, e.g. by dissenting relentlessly from others' attempts to dissent from the status quo, that in itself becomes an abuse of democracy.

Basically for democracy to work, people have to be reasonable and give consideration to differences of opinion and dissent in order to seek common ground. If they only play strategic games geared toward tactically overriding dissent/resistance from their opponents, it's not real democracy.
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 7 Apr, 2020 11:35 am
@goldberg,
Quote:
Rock on, Ivanka Trump. Let's twerk for Trumpism.

You have Wasserman Schultz. Not that anyone would want to see her twerk. Ugly goes to the bone.Laughing Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 7 Apr, 2020 03:19 pm
@goldberg,
goldberg wrote:
Progressives? You mean Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio Cortez?

Yes.


goldberg wrote:
Are you averse to social activism?

I am when the social activists are out to violate everyone's civil liberties.


goldberg wrote:
Then what about the Tea Party movement organised by conservatives? Could you tell me the aim of the Tea Party movement? It was just a party? They were looking for new lovers?

To my knowledge, the Tea Party movement did not try to violate everyone's civil liberties.
goldberg
 
  3  
Reply Tue 7 Apr, 2020 09:18 pm
@livinglava,
I think no one takes issue with the idea that liberals and conservatives need to work together when faced with a national crisis like Covid-19, what with it has nothing to do with ideological squabble. In a way, it's a matter of national interest for America at a time when Putin's Russia and its his like-minded allies are sending medical aid to European nations to help them fend off the onslaught of Covid-19. They also use social media to sway public opinion-just like Trump- and sow the seeds of discontent. Accordingly, anti-American sentiment is growing in some nations, and hawks in other nations are using this crisis to promulgate the idea that America's political system, enervated by internal schisms and power struggles, has become ossified, aggravated by Trump's nativism and his protectionist bent in terms of trade

That's why it's worrisome that reactionary conservative media outlets like Fox News and its sister publications don't even care about this; they merely indulge in partisan bias , finger-wagging, and blame-shifting. That's not traditional conservatism exemplified by Burkean conservatism, which is leery of centralized government power, thinking that the passions of the people must be checked by good judgment. The reactionary right's mindset and the alt-right movement deviate from such old conservative values:reactionary conservatives set great store by identity politics and contend that race, place of origin and political leanings take precedence over reason and national solidarity. More broadly, they are in thrall to their nationalist tendencies while going the extra mile to rebut the argument that globalization and pluralism confer more benefits for America.

To be fair, proponents of ultra-leftism also behave in the same fashion, particularly their eagerness to banish capitalism to the margins, replaced by the social democratic Nordic model or even an economical system that's akin to statism. It's hard to imagine another America without marquee tech firms like the Big Five fostering creativity or making high-margin digital products that have whizzy features. Hollywood, Billboard and NBA have also played some critical roles in expanding America's influence worldwide. That's why I think Joe Biden would be a better choice compared with the Trump and Bernie Sanders, in spite of his own shortcomings. Well, our choices are limited, innit?

I'm just speaking for myself as a commoner. Don't deride me for spouting claptrap like this.
goldberg
 
  3  
Reply Tue 7 Apr, 2020 09:23 pm
@goldberg,
That's why I think Joe Biden would be a better choice compared with the self-respecting Trump
0 Replies
 
goldberg
 
  4  
Reply Tue 7 Apr, 2020 09:37 pm
@oralloy,
You think Trump cares about civil liberties or the rights of the individual? He even despises press freedom and heaps scorn on journalists who have dissenting opinions. I don't think a good leader would do this.

I still think that Trump is another Putin.
goldberg
 
  4  
Reply Tue 7 Apr, 2020 09:42 pm
@oralloy,
The Tea-Party movement is said to have been bankrolled by Koch family, one of the benefactors of Trump.
0 Replies
 
goldberg
 
  4  
Reply Tue 7 Apr, 2020 10:05 pm
@goldberg,
an economic system
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 7 Apr, 2020 10:37 pm
@goldberg,
goldberg wrote:
You think Trump cares about civil liberties or the rights of the individual?

I can't see into his mind. But I can see from his actions that he does protect America from progressives.

I don't care what his thoughts are. It's the results that count.
goldberg
 
  4  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2020 03:23 am
@oralloy,
It would be wrong to use the word progressive to refer to liberals collectively, inasmuch as Britain has the progressive Conservatism espoused by some members of the Conservative Party. Would you call them progressives?
goldberg
 
  3  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2020 03:34 am
@oralloy,
Joe Biden is not even a progressive right now. Don't forget that Trump used to be a Democrat.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jun/16/donald-trump-changed-political-parties-at-least-fi
The Washington Times is a conservative newspaper, mind you.
 

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