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The Democrats Gloat Thread

 
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Aug, 2005 04:44 pm
JustWonders wrote:
I spoke to both Mr. Qualls and Mr. Garvey (as well as Jonathan Bowling's dad, whose son also died in Iraq) via phone last week.


How did you get into the position to speak to these people?
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 06:57 am
JustWonders wrote:
....also think a lot will be forthcoming in the weeks ahead (now that she's leaving Crawford) about what really went on there and who was really behind it....



.....What if, though, hypothetically speaking of course, the public was told that land was donated by a Crawford resident who sympathized with Mrs. Sheehan and her cause, but later found out that that was not the case at all, and that, in fact, a rather large and well known liberal organization had arranged to pay a large sum of money to "lease" that resident's land for the month of August, 2005.



A) She had an offer to use land closer to Bush's ranch and the owner has publicly supported her views. See here. The owner is a relative of the guy who shoots his rifle off. I'm not sure if Cindy ever moved onto it or not.

B) I knew this would happen. The opponents would try to pick apart every piece of the story to try to discredit the essence of what happened there. If they can find any discrepancy, suspected discrepancy, or sort-of discrepancy, they can go running around proclaiming, "Yes, but you don't know what really happened there."

What really happened there is that a mother of a son killed in Iraq wanted an audience with president to ask him why. Somewhere along the line she picked up supporters, and she became a symobl of public disenchantment with the Iraq war. That's the essence of what happened.

I might point out again, as I have before, about what happened back in the fifties with Rosa Parks. The story that was given to the papers was that she was a black maid, who took the bus one day and decided that this one time, she was not going to go to the back of the bus. The bus diriver confronted her, and she was taken off the bus. It was one of the critical moments of the civil rights movement.

Well, years later, the full story came out, related by her friends and family. Rosa Parks did not go on that bus in order to get anywhere. She was a member of a civil rights organization, and they had planned to do this a couple of weeks earlier. It was postponed because they felt this date would get more publicity-I forget the specific reason they thought this would be so.

When Rosa Parks got on that bus, she was not expecting anything to happen other than she would be removed from the bus and possibly arrested. That was what she was there for that day. It was planned to happen that way. Nothing made her happier than when that bus driver confronted her. That is what she wanted.

But what difference does it make, now? The fact is that Rosa Parks stood up and sparked a movement. Most people think it is a good thing, and the "revelations" that she really planned the whole thing were met with a shrug, as they were beside the point.

I can just imagine what the Just Wonderses of the day would say if they knew then what we know now about Rosa Parks.

A) "She wasn't really a maid, she was a member of a civil rights organizaton". True. She was a maid who belonged to a civil rights organization. So what.

Just like Cindy Sheehan is a bereaved mother who also got involved with antiwar people. So what.

B) "Rosa Parks planned the whole thing." Yes, she did. Her and her friends in the civil rights movement. Once again, so what.

Same thing with Cindy. She may have had some involvement in the antiwar movement before her son was killed. So what. There MAY have been some money paid by an antiwar group to secure the land Cindy went on-what difference does it make? Is Cindy's son any less dead for it?

All this concentration on getting to "the real story" simply ignores the fact that the real story was right in front of everyone's nose all along. Cindy Sheehan is a bereaved mother who wanted to know the great cause her son died for, and the president decided he couldn't take half an hour out of his vacation to tell her.

That's the real story.
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 07:12 am
No gloating. No mercy. increase the pressure. insure a fair election.No Florida.No Ohio.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 08:14 am
JW - Thank you for the details. I gotta admit I still dont see what, in this day and age, is relevant about Sheehan having a "touch up" before going on cameras, but I appreciate you coming up with your personal relays of Quall's and Garvey's story.

Keltic - Nail on the head, there. Very good point re: Rosa Parks. Yes, one can just imagine what the machine thats now out for Sheehan, and all its uncritical reproducers, would have done to Rosa Parks with that information in hand. When in the end it's all diversionary.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 08:50 am
kelticwizard wrote:
JustWonders wrote:
I spoke to both Mr. Qualls and Mr. Garvey (as well as Jonathan Bowling's dad, whose son also died in Iraq) via phone last week.


How did you get into the position to speak to these people?


Watch out, JW. You keep this up and you'll blow your cover. Right now they don't think you're part of "the team." Ixnay.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 09:45 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
Watch out, JW. You keep this up and you'll blow your cover. Right now they don't think you're part of "the team." Ixnay.


LOL, thanks for the reminder, Tico.

Now, where's my sunglasses...and a scarf, perhaps. :wink:
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 09:54 pm
Just make sure you've got your glasses on before you push the button on "The Pen" .... remember what happened to Tommy Lee Jones - he was lucky he "Came Back".
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 10:07 pm
kelticwizard wrote:
JustWonders wrote:
I spoke to both Mr. Qualls and Mr. Garvey (as well as Jonathan Bowling's dad, whose son also died in Iraq) via phone last week.


How did you get into the position to speak to these people?

Well, you'd be VERY impressed with all the hobnobbing Chrissee does! She's had lunch with Micheal Shiavo, where he recounted Terri's request not to be "hooked up to those damn machines", she was there when Rove winked and gave hand signals to Robert Novak during a conversation re Valerie Plame, she was Rosie O'Donnell's flower girl, and carried Cindy Sheehan's water for her all over Camp Casey. She is amazing. Moves in the power circles of the Catholic church hierarchy... I mean, don't get me wrong. We're proud of JW's contacts, but that Chrissee. She knows EVERYBODY.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 10:28 pm
I saw Teddy Kennedy passed out on my aunt Harriette's couch once. My aunt wasn't very happy about it, and neither was her freind, Virgie Bennet, who was Ted's wife at the time. Harriette and Virgie remained freinds, unlike Ted and Virgie.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2005 01:22 pm
j.w. !!!

are you katie couric irl ?? she seems to be away from matt, ann & al alot these days.

or babba wabba ? that vacant chair on the view makes me a wee bit suspicious...

:wink:
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Sep, 2005 12:56 am
thethinkfactory wrote:
If you think this changes how the 53% of the voters that elected Bush will vote in the next election you are crazy.

I am becoming more dissillsioned with the ability of humans to make any decision that is not dogma directed. Reason and thier own opinion will get them to the poll and they will vote for 'not liberal' - whoever that is.

TF


Quite lucid thinking and spot on.

Some may not share your dispair for this eventuality, but that is a matter of opinion
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 07:19 am
No Relief for Schwarzenegger's Numbers in California

Approval went down one further point to 36%, disapproval also down one to 52%

Dissatisfaction with Congress Persists in U.S.

59 per cent of respondents disapprove of the way the U.S. Congress is doing its job, up five points since June. Only 37% approve.
0 Replies
 
barefootTia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 09:39 am
bookmark
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 02:51 pm
nimh wrote:
No Relief for Schwarzenegger's Numbers in California

Approval went down one further point to 36%, disapproval also down one to 52%

Dissatisfaction with Congress Persists in U.S.

59 per cent of respondents disapprove of the way the U.S. Congress is doing its job, up five points since June. Only 37% approve.



i'm still thinking that those numbers are gonna drop another 10 points. maybe more.

most americans are not going to support a team that is constantly dropping the ball, even if they voted for 'em.

that's gonna leave only the hard core true believers, me thinks.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2005 06:07 am
Quote:
Bush Approval Hits 40% in United States

(Angus Reid Global Scan) - George W. Bush is losing public backing in the U.S., according to a poll by Princeton Survey Research Associates for the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press. 40 per cent of respondents approve of the president's performance, down seven points since July.

The current approval rating is the lowest for the sitting president in a national Pew Research Center poll. [..]

Polling Data

Do you approve or disapprove of the way George W. Bush is handling his job as president?

Approve
40% Sept. 2005
47% Jul. 2005
42% Jun. 2005

Disapprove
52% Sept. 2005
46% Jul. 2005
49% Jun. 2005

Source: Princeton Survey Research Associates / Pew Research Center for the People and the Press
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2005 09:23 am
Nimh
Minh, George Bush got the perfect training while he was governor of Texas for the type of US presidency he wanted. The Texas governorship is a largely ceremonial office while the real state power is held by the Speaker of the House. Bush is big on ceremony and image. Karl Rove is expert on these talents.

Bush wanted lots of image-building ceremony while not having to work too hard nor having to learn too much. He felt safe in the protecting arms of his daddy's rich political friends and the rabid support of his right wing evangelical religious base. They have opposite interests, the corporate rich and the evangelicals, but they come together regardless of the peril to the country and to the majority of its citizens.

President Bush is Texas Governor writ big, bolstered by a lifetime failure at every commercial endeavor he tried. Even Daddy's rich political friends can't hide that sad fact. Character does count. George Bush counts on image more than character. Good character would not permit the rampant corruption and damage to the US and its citizens.

George Bush is why I voted Democrat twice for the first time.

BBB
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2005 09:32 am
Quote:
Governors of Texas

As the discussion of the governors' powers suggests, Texas chief executives are greeted with high expectations but limited power to meet those expectations. With little ability to lead the legislature, few constitutional means of control over the bureaucracy, and surrounded by executives that may be political rivals or even enemies, the governor is still looked upon as the political leader of the state. These expectations are the double-edged sword that defines the political position of the Texas governor. Governors must be able to meet expectations in order to win reelection and stay in office, even though these expectations often overestimate the governor's capabilities.

Using the visibility of the office without being hamstrung by its limitations requires a mixture of political skill, personality, and lucky timing. A knack for negotiation and powers of persuasion are necessary to attempt to induce cooperation and compromise from legislators and elected officials who won't simply do as they're told. Conditions beyond their control will also test their talent, political skill, and even their personality as they are forced to deal with economic cycles and unforeseen crises. For some, difficulties become opportunities to demonstrate leadership; for others, an economic downturn or a natural disaster force their administration off the rails. And sometimes, there may be no single event - the timing is just bad for a particular governor.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2005 09:53 am
Tico
Tico, how well you made my point.

George Bush's daddy and his rich friends bought the Texas governorship for W. The Bush cabal controlled Texas politics. Bush was able to unite the state congress to some degree because not to cooperate could mean political and economic ruin. His reputation as a uniter, not a divider was based other than noble character or political talent. It was muscle backed by money. The result is that Texas isn't in very good shape on a vast array of issues.

George W. Bush is one of the most divisive presidents in US history. He does it deliberately because it is politically smart from his and Karl Rove's point of view. But it is not good for the US.

Tico, do you care more about your politcal party affiliation than you do for your country?

BBB
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2005 10:21 am
BBB wrote:
Tico, how well you made my point.

Really? I thought your point was that the Texas Governorship was largely a ceremonial office. What got me to thinking that was that part where you said, "[t]he Texas governorship is a largely ceremonial office while the real state power is held by the Speaker of the House."


BBB wrote:
Tico, do you care more about your politcal party affiliation than you do for your country?

No.



BBB, why do you hate America?
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2005 10:35 am
Tico
Ticomaya wrote:
BBB wrote:
BBB wrote:
Tico, do you care more about your politcal party affiliation than you do for your country?

No.

BBB, why do you hate America?


Tico, when you have done as much in your lifetime as I have during my long one to work for the common good of America and its citizens, then you can ask that stupid question of yourself.

BBB
0 Replies
 
 

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