The Democrats Gloat Thread

I think if Oz is going to be biffed then there should be a thread for it. I will join in.

Oh and this is my lunchtime, I'm not getting paid

The thing to remember about trolling; it only works on those dumb enough to rise to the bait. Now, when it comes to baiting, there are a number of masters of that art hereabouts, and plenty who eagerly take what they have to offer. Says something about both sorts, IMO.

word...

Hasnt Dlowan posted again and again and again about those very same atrocities? Even here in this thread again and again acknowledging what is going ferociously wrong in Australia on these counts and asking you, nay pleading with you to help her folks fight against it?

You dont seem to be interested in doing so in the least tho. The only interest you seem to have in Australia's hateful immigration policies is as something you can slap Australian liberals around the ears with if they dare criticize anything Bush-related. And that is supposed to help the Australian Asians and blacks how?

uhhh....hmmmm, uhhhhh...it doesn't ??

let's see... no blacks in australia. but lots and lots of asians, which takes in a pretty diverse bunch of folks from different regions of asia.

now isn't it just possible that the reason that there aren't nearly as many black immigres is simply because of australia's location ? i.e., plopped down in the asiatic region. afrika is a fair distance away. easier to immigrate to europe. and from europe to america.

could that be it?

how about fear of vegimite ? fear of kangaroos ? preference for becks over "fast-ughs" ?

or how about this one?

afrikans are trying to get away from the hot and sand and the dust. then why go somewhere that is hot and sand and dust ?

no offense meant to aussies, mind you.

I think the blacks in Australia are mostly all aboriginees. I'm certainly willing to be wrong about that, though, having never been there.

Maybe you and they should just take your advice.
We enjoy a little peace on our thread, too.

Nimh--

You (and Dlo) compoletely miss the irony of the whole thing. She expects me to be tame in the mention of US impropriety--and I have begun to do so--at the inverse rate of her losing her cool over the SAME THING.

The hypocracy is hilarious.

You're right about one thing. My primary interest isn't changing Oz. It is showing her and anyone else who perpetuates this bizarre double-standard for what they are. You are just another slippery little fish, caught in the net.

Please explain how all of Dlo's criticisms here against the US are helping us?

Why do you hate Australia, DTOM?

Men At Work. a crime against humanity if ever there was one.

sorry dlowan... feel free to bring up Talking Heads in retaliation.

A nation can not be helped enough with critical questions and observations. It does one any length of good.

As much to the point, however, the criticism of us foreigners is at least as much about our lives as yours. GWB's decisions affect our lives, in Europe, Australia, Latin-America, in various negative ways. By working, in whichever way we can, for change within America we help ourselves as much as you. Much like your criticism of Putin's Russia in the end may well help Americans, too.

I'm having trouble grasping the notion that even now you and Dlowan have battled out this particular fight several times, you still don't know what she actually gets so worked up about. Yet that apparently is the case.

Of course it is utter vanity on my part to think I can succeed where she failed, but perhaps as a third party I have a shot. Certainly I think I have a pretty fair grasp on what bugs her, like most of us who now have witnessed several of your punch-ups -- though of course she can correct me if I get anything wrong, below.

Dlowan isnt, in fact, losing her cool over foreigners mentioning Australian improprieties. And that's where the irony you discern disappears into thin air. There is no parallel here: what you witness is not "the inverse" of what she accuses you of, namely getting all indignant if anyone dares criticize your country all too fiercely.

Its not THAT you bring up Australian improprieties that bugs her. The evidence for that is easy to find, anywhere on the posts on Australia here. Judging from how she reacts in other cases, she doesn't mind criticism of foreigners of Howard, the Australian government, its immigration policies, or past injustices on Australia's part in history: she practically invites it, encourages it. This is something many of us onlookers can vouch for.

So there is apparently something specific about your posts, here and before, that makes her lose her cool.

What that is, she has already described several times, and I tried to summarise it as concisely as I could in my previous post:


I mean, imagine. Here is someone who's actually working, in her own country, to fight the racism against Australian Asians and blacks. Who would love any substantive effort from outside to criticize and pressure the Australian government on that count.

And there you are, explicitly confirming that you have no actual interest in impacting said racism, but dragging out seemingly random references to it every now and then purely as a kind of non-sequitur response - whenever an Aussie like her treads too close to GWB on any given issue.

Its the ultimate example of a non-sequitur, really. An Australian criticizes America? "As if you Australians have such a clear track record! You've had racism for centuries!". It doesnt argue anything re: the topic at hand; in fact, it's merely meant to distract from it.

Now nonsequiturs are maddening, period. But what must be all the more exasperating here is that the abuses you mention, purely argumentatively, are actual things she cares about deeply, and would love to welcome your actual involvement on. But you're not interested. Not interested enough, even, to get the most basic facts right ("there are no blacks in Australia").

So she gets angry. When she does, you think you made a point, that you've demonstrated irony: she got angry when you criticised her country/government! The only problem: thats not actually what she got so angry about.

PLAY, ACT 1
- Now about this topic of the thread here, and those US abuses / racisms / etc, I think its a scandal.
- As if you Australians have such a clear track record! You've had racism for centuries!
- Yeah, I know! I'm bloody angry about it myself. But how does that change anything about what we're talking about, the thing the US admin did?
- Here! This is another example of the gruesomenesses the Australians did!
- Eh, yes, I know. I'm fighting that, myself. Would you care to help?
- No, not interested. Just showing off the hypocrisy, that you are criticising America on something that your country did much worse on!
- Eh, yeah. Like I wrote in my thread about my country. Its awful. Youre welcome to come discuss it there. Now about the US, what we were talking about...
- Here! This is also something Australia did wrong! Australia doesnt even have blacks!
- Huh? Yes it does! Hello, du-uh! Of course Australia has blacks. We treated them pretty badly, its a shame, but of course they're there!
- See, you're getting all defensive! Now you're denying the very facts about your own country! See, when its YOUR country, you cant stand criticism either... Oh, the irony...

We can all pretty much repeat this conversation in a dozen different paraphrases now. The irony you see, isn't there; the negative reaction you get when you drag out the topic in an arbitrary discussion, seemingly as a way to deflect criticism about the US or Bush, doesn't demonstrate it. Moreover, when it becomes clear you are merely trying to score an argumentative point when you launch into another tirade about the Australian wrongs, insult is added to injury: your argumentative point is over the backs of the very people/issues your opponent does care about. When, finally, you accuse an opponent who is personally invested in the fight against her country's racism of defending it, fury is easily roused. When it then comes, with angry words, petty put-downs and exclamation marks, you can go all you want that: "see! You react negatively when I point out your country's racism!", but that is by then clearly nowhere near the point anymore.

Nimh
Nimh, good job setting the record straight. Well done!

I adore dlowan, even if she is a stupid white wabbit. Not only that, I respect her for her moral ideals for her country. I would rather have dlowan for a friend than the pack of dogs yapping at her heels.

BBB

Lol! I wasn't angry about any nonsense Lash spouted, nor about the odd bit of truth!!!!

I said what I was angry about in one of my posts. That was the voting stuff, you know, you have no right to have a say in our elections, (which is true and a nobrainer), but then I got to thinking about America's frequent interference behind the scenes in other's elections, and their involvement in assassinations of and coups against leaders they do not like, and I saw red, or at least pink.


I DO get peed off from time to time about the nonsense that some Americans here use to try and deflect criticism of their government's actions. Ones which affect the whole world.

You know the ones. "you dishonour the troops" "traitor to criticise government when at war" "antimerican"

[Actully, Howard, much as I dislike him and his policies (and he is worse than a Bush poodle, Walter, and far cleverer. He is also, in effect, if not in intent, racist, having ridden to power on a wave of paranoia and reactionism, by deliberately fanning paranoid delusions about illegal immigrant arrivals and terrorism, as well as turning back the clock on key pieces of legislation affecting Aboriginal people) he has NEVER tried that sort of nonsense in dealing with the massive Australian resistance to our involvement in Iraq. He has never labelled dissent traitorous, or "unAustralian" or wrong when we have troops deployed. He has simply asked (unnecessarily) that anger not be turned on the troops, which it hasn't been. Nor has he reacted when soldiers, themselves, interviewed as they were boarding ships, have expressed their opposition to the war. For that, and his gun legislation I respect him.]


Sometimes the mood hits me to go after them on it.

THis is one of those times.

Outright lies like no blacks (and they are nor just Aboriginal people, we have a thriving black African refugee/immigrant community just as one other example) need to be refuted.

Now what were you damn Democrats gloating about anyway?

Isn't gloating a mean minded thing to do?


Like when some of the Bushies gloated so revoltingly and childishly after the election? Remember those dumb pix and all?


Can't you think of something more mature and such to do than gloat?


Howsabout a celebration thread?

Hm. So dlowan does hate America.

Lol! Cos I don't want Democrats gloating?

excellent bit of forensic documentation there nimh. There are a lot of individuals on the threads who engage in the non-sequitur as a valid argument . When presented in brief, it does appear absurd.

Nimh--

You really shouldn't demean yourself by formulating some excuse for her. How chivalrous of you to take her school yard protestations and try to build it into something high and mighty.

However, popularity contest aside--if you can--she clearly didn't like me posting a few cheerful pics of Bush and she tried to counter that with other pics of Bush she thought would anger me, I guess. I thought they were funny, so she launches on--not in any glorious Good vs Evil fight as you would have us believe, but in a cheap, tawdry, PDiddidish pic war, which she lost because it simply didn't bother me.

She continues to escalate the whole thing--as she later admitted on this thread--she thought I "deserved a slap"--only she kept missing and blackening her own eyes--but nevermind. But, it was a show worth my time--and one for the annals.

She said we meet those we hurt or bother on the way up--again, as we are on our way down. True. But, she could not stand that she has her own horde of murdered, tortured and jailed in her Down Going Future--and she busted a blood vessel when she was confronted with that.

Period.

It is all on record for you to peruse. I am content to stand on the content of the posts.

Gezundheit.

Woah -- now you hate Germany too! Does your rancor know no end?