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How Dare We Call It a War!

 
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Apr, 2003 09:16 pm
UH, pardon me ... don't want to interupt ... you kids just go on having fun and pay no attention to me ... I'm just tidying up a bit, Go on, now ... shoo! There's nothing here to gawk at ... move on, please.
0 Replies
 
gezzy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Apr, 2003 09:22 pm
Hmmmm.....
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cobalt
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Apr, 2003 11:54 pm
Anyone paying much attention to watching TV coverage now that there is this metaphorical betting pool on when the actual "Regime" is overthrown? Seems a great many handicappers out there. And see the titles editorials are being given as well as the articles - everyone seems to be vying for a title that is "the ONE" that is remembered in history.

So, now we finally have photos and coverage of dancing, happy Iraqis and those who are trying to demolish statues, paintings, floor tile portraits, etc. Well, I do hope "people" are not fooled into thinking there is much to it because the carryover effect of good will to the US will not last long at all. And, the US created more enemies within Iraq and other countries with every blast that killed "civilians".

Hmmmm, indeed!
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CodeBorg
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2003 12:40 am
Timber:
I admire your sense of humor and lightness... Very Happy It makes it much easier for me to stay happily above it all too. Thanks for the playfulness, even as a janitor!

cobalt wrote:
Anyone paying much attention to watching TV coverage now that there is this metaphorical betting pool on when the actual "Regime" is overthrown? ... And, the US created more enemies within Iraq and other countries with every blast that killed "civilians".

I agree completely... My very first instinct when the statues were toppled, was "How genuine is this?" How contrived, or how real? I've read too many articles about Iraqi locals smiling and waving to the tanks, only to turn and sneer when they get around the corner.

I know people often act out in whatever way they think they're supposed to, to fit in, conform, get approval, get ahead. Is this really the end? I do not trust the media, and expecially not the hawks.

It will interesting to see how it really goes.
With all the smoke and spin, I have no idea what to expect!
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williamhenry3
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2003 01:56 am
Unfortunately, lost in the hoopla is the fact that the war in Iraq is hardly over. Pockets of resistance will be out there for months -- if not years -- just waiting for an American to show his or her face.

Meanwhile, the U.S. has delivered another MOAB bomb to Iraq for upstarts in Baghdad. Cheers of victory belie the actions of the Dubya administration.

Meanwhile, Syria looks like the next candidate for the Dubya War Prize.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2003 10:07 am
First of all, I am delighted for the Iraqi people -- and I hope they make good use of this good fortune that has come their way.

But make no mistake about all the rejoicing in the streets. Much of it is contrived.

Imagine this if you will: Imagine an occupying force coming in to see Iraq through the turmoil that will surely be during the next year or two or three. And suppose that force, instead of being American and UK forces -- are forces from a fellow Arab country.

Does anyone think for even a moment that there would not be Iraqis pissing on American flags in that situtation? Does anyone think they would not be hanging Bush in effigy if that situation were to occur?

The real anger is at the bottom of the well for now -- and prudence dictates that they dance in the street and kiss the American flag and pictures of george Bush.

But only time will tell us what the real story is -- and I dare say that we will find that the laws of unintended consequence will rise up and bite us on the ass.

Not trying to rain on anyone's parade -- and I TRULY HOPE THAT I AM COMPLETELY WRONG ON THIS. But every fiber of my body tells me that I am not.
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larry richette
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2003 10:34 am
I am firmly convinced that the toppling of the Saddam statue yesterday was stage-managed by the US forces (who after all contributed a tank to pulling it down) for the benefit of the TV cameras. It was a pseudo-event like so many others in this "war." Now comes the occupation phase...a very dangerous phase since the US will have to patrol a country the size of California which is still, as I write, not entirely under our control. Bush and Powell and Rumsfeld say they want the US and the Brits to play the leading role and relegate the UN to minor functions. That will expose us to all manner of attack by the citizenry.
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trespassers will
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2003 10:37 am
larry richette wrote:
I am firmly convinced that the toppling of the Saddam statue yesterday was stage-managed by the US forces (who after all contributed a tank to pulling it down) for the benefit of the TV cameras. It was a pseudo-event like so many others in this "war."

I suppose you think their were marines just off camera with guns aimed at the crowd, ordering them to cheer and smile. Rolling Eyes

I wonder if you are as skeptical of "news" clips showing individuals protesting the US, or whether it might even have occurred to you that some of those might be "stage-managed" by forces unfavorable to our goals. Question
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larry richette
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2003 10:53 am
What forces unfavorable to our goals are staging demonstrations in the US, trespassers? You sound like a paranoid crank. I SAW the US troops helping to topple the Saddam statue. They had a tank that dragged it off its pedestal. If you think the antiwar demonstartors are being secretly manipulated, you should say who is manipulating them--if you know, which I very much doubt.
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2003 10:55 am
Quote:
Bodies litter streets of Baghdad suburb

BAGHDAD (AFP) - Around 20 bodies and burnt-out cars littered the streets of the southwestern Baghdad neighbourhood of Al-Dora, an AFP photographer reported.

Bodies, including those of children, were still strewn over the road between Al-Dora and the international airport, which is under the control of US forces.

The putrid, fly-covered corpses were being buried in a mass grave along the side of the road by volunteers whose noses were covered with scarves agaisnt the stench, according to the photographer.

Some of the corpses were in or under the charred vehicles. Dead children lay on the side of the road, covered in sheets.
One family, two of whose members were completely incinerated, died in the back of a pick-up truck.

"If the price of freedom is this, we don't want it," said one Iraqi helping at the scene.

A gutted white Mercedes car sat at the roadside, a white flag still fluttering from its antenna.

A US officer at the scene said Saddam's Fedayeen paramilitary militia attacked an American convoy which retaliated, causing the deaths on Monday.

Witnesses, however, said that US soldiers opened fire on cars carrying civilians they thought posed a threat on Wednesday morning.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20030410/wl_mideast_afp/iraq_war_baghdad_bodies_030410145215
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trespassers will
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2003 11:07 am
larry richette wrote:
What forces unfavorable to our goals are staging demonstrations in the US, trespassers? You sound like a paranoid crank. I SAW the US troops helping to topple the Saddam statue. They had a tank that dragged it off its pedestal. If you think the antiwar demonstartors are being secretly manipulated, you should say who is manipulating them--if you know, which I very much doubt.

Okay, everybody... Larry is calling me a "paranoid crank", now if I respond in like kind, I suppose it will be further evidence of what a terrible person I am, and has nothing to do with his blatant insult, right? Rolling Eyes

Larry, please show me where in my comments I wrote or even suggested to a reasonable reader that I was referring to protests in the US. My comments were regarding news coverage in the Iraqi theater. I thought this was obvious. Sorry if it was not.

Please let me know whether this still makes me sound like a "paranoid crank". and if so, please help me understand why being cynical about the legitimacy of some shows of animosity towards the US makes one a "paranoid crank" but being cynical about the legitimacy of some shows of appreciation towards the US does not.

Thanks in advance for your cordial response.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2003 03:01 pm
No, Tres, nobody CALLED you a paranoid crank ... it was observed that you SOUNDED like one, not that you were one. You even remark to that effect later in your retort, which itself invites further off-topic, interpersonal minutiae of interest to a very limited audience and is contrary to preferred proceedure.

OK, that was just timber up there in the plain type. The following generally-directed keyboard-lashing is MODERATOR:

A few participants on this and other threads are as a group more frequently involved in inappropriate interactions than are most other participants. It simply does not matter who or how or where inappropriate behavior originates, what does matter is that a disproportionately few folks are constantly involved in an inversely disproportionate number of inappropriate interactions. An instigator is as guilty as the party foolish enough to rise to the bait and become instigated. Some folks obviously type faster than they think. Those who find that shoe uncomfortable are urged to select a different size or style.
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trespassers will
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2003 03:20 pm
timberlandko wrote:
No, Tres, nobody CALLED you a paranoid crank ... it was observed that you SOUNDED like one, not that you were one. You even remark to that effect later in your retort, which itself invites further off-topic, interpersonal minutiae of interest to a very limited audience and is contrary to preferred proceedure.

Oh, for God's sake, are you kidding me?

"He only wrote that you sounded like one?" Are you serious????

Okay. If that's fair play, I can live with that. I'll try to remember from now on when I decide to insult someone to write that they "sound like" a douchebag, or "seem like" an absolute moron. Maybe I'll mix it up a little and comment that they "remind me of" a total jackoff I used to know.

As long as the rules are the same for everyone, I can live by them. Thanks for the tip, Mr. Moderator. Rolling Eyes
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2003 03:44 pm
Geez, some folks love to argue, don't' they? Some stuff just ain't worth it to most folks. It seems to me some folks do put a lot more effort into it than do others. But then, as long as it remains topical and civil, then, what the heck. My point here is: Folks, please don't poke at folks, and, if poked, please don't poke back in a manner which is inappropriate per the Terms of Service and the Debate Guidelines. As the site grows, inappropriate behavior becomes a growing problem. It WILL NOT be a major problem.

Terms of Service

Guidelines for Debate
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2003 04:59 pm
It's Thursday, so it must be nation building day, and the day that the Iraqi's don't get to chose their leaders. Oh well, it takes less that a week for this Bush lie to come out:

Quote:
Coalition 'will select Iraqi leaders'

US Secretary of State Colin Powell has said that the United States and its coalition partners will select leaders for a new interim Iraqi authority.
Mr Powell said the US was "not unmindful" of the international community's work regarding humanitarian aid for Iraq.

But he said coalition countries had invested more in the Iraqi conflict and had the right to take a leading role in the building a new authority.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2936493.stm
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cobalt
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2003 06:22 pm
BillW wrote:
It's Thursday, so it must be nation building day, and the day that the Iraqi's don't get to chose their leaders.


Bill, excellent phrasing, ha ha! Thanks for your link.
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2003 06:30 pm
Heah cobalt, tomorrow it will be something else. Crying or Very sad
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williamhenry3
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2003 10:42 pm
It's very disturbing to me that Baghdad is now in a state of anarchy. It seems that our own "leaders" have given no thought to post-war city government.
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trespassers will
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2003 11:36 pm
williamhenry3 wrote:
It's very disturbing to me that Baghdad is now in a state of anarchy. It seems that our own "leaders" have given no thought to post-war city government.

Is it possible that they have given it a lot of thought, and have planned adequately, but that some period of instability is unavoidable?
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maxsdadeo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2003 11:55 pm
timber: Just a question, do they give you something to split those hairs with when you become a moderator, or is that a tool you have always had?
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