1
   

Amnesty International slams US

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 10:00 am
'Even WaPo?'

Even a right-wing newspaper defends Bush, torture, and abuse? Shocking!

Amnesty International summed it up pretty well:

Quote:
Schulz responded to Cheney's comments: "It doesn't matter whether he takes Amnesty International seriously.
"He doesn't take torture seriously; he doesn't take the Geneva Convention seriously; he doesn't take due process rights seriously; and he doesn't take international law seriously.

"And that is more important than whether he takes Amnesty International seriously."



Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 01:17 pm
http://thinkprogress.org/index.php?p=979

Quote:
The Bush Administration Was For Amnesty International Before It Was Against It


Tonight, Vice President Cheney will appear on CNN's Larry King Live and reportedly condemn a recent Amnesty International report that faults the U.S. for its treatment of detainees in the war on terror. Cheney has said:

"For Amnesty International to suggest that somehow the United States is a violator of human rights, I frankly just don't take them seriously."

Other Administration officials have similarly been quick to lash out against the Amnesty report. White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan said the allegations were "ridiculous and unsupported by the facts." Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Gen. Richard Myers called the Amnesty International report "absolutely irresponsible."

But in the past, when it was convenient to the Administration, they did not hesitate to cite Amnesty to make its case. And nowhere did the Administration need more help than in selling the Iraq war. Secretary Rumsfeld repeatedly turned to Amnesty to highlight the repressive nature of Saddam's regime. On March 27, 2003, Rumsfeld said:

"We know that it's a repressive regime…Anyone who has read Amnesty International or any of the human rights organizations about how the regime of Saddam Hussein treats his people…"

The next day, Rumsfeld even cited his "careful reading" of Amnesty:

t seems to me a careful reading of Amnesty International or the record of Saddam Hussein, having used chemical weapons on his own people as well as his neighbors, and the viciousness of that regime, which is well known and documented by human rights organizations, ought not to be surprised."

And on April 1, 2003, Rumsfeld said once again:

"f you read the various human rights groups and Amnesty International's description of what they know has gone on, it's not a happy picture."

So the rule here appears to be: Amnesty is a legitimate source for human rights violations of other countries, but is an unreliable and irresponsible source for reporting on the U.S.


Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 10:03 pm
dlowan wrote:
Yeah, well, I guess we see different things as hyperbole.

Shrugs.


Yes we do, but your view of it is incorrect.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 01:45 am
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
dlowan wrote:
Yeah, well, I guess we see different things as hyperbole.

Shrugs.


Yes we do, but your view of it is incorrect.


Now, finally, you've convinced me, Finn! It was the full set of proofs that you offered.

dlowan, Finn's right and you're wrong. If you reread the proof he's offered, [I know that it'll be a chore getting thru them, but buck up wabbit, the truth ain't always easy to find], I'm sure you'll come to your senses.

When that has happened, Finn will get you an honorary membership in the Republican Party.

I can't wait to get mine!
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2005 08:30 am
This is a JOKE and a politically motivated ploy.

It is one thing to classify Human Rights violations against your own people, but to think that ANY FORM imprisionment would NOT qualify as a HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION is the joke.

This is why I can not take AI seriously. When you have genocide happening in many countries in Africa and Asia, how stupid is it to classify "so-called" prisioner abuse a human rights violation.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2005 09:48 am
bm
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2005 10:21 am
I am not surprised that the administration and it's supporters would vilify the Amnesty. I would have been more surprised if they or someone here who supports Bush would finally own up to something.

(yea, i know i am a blame america bla bla...)
0 Replies
 
candidone1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2005 10:31 am
woiyo wrote:
This is a JOKE and a politically motivated ploy.

It is one thing to classify Human Rights violations against your own people, but to think that ANY FORM imprisionment would NOT qualify as a HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION is the joke.

This is why I can not take AI seriously. When you have genocide happening in many countries in Africa and Asia, how stupid is it to classify "so-called" prisioner abuse a human rights violation.


Yeah, that Abu Ghraib Photoshop job was a hoot wasn't it.
That musta taken some time to manufacture and manipulate huh?

Why don't you speak to the abuses in Asia and Africa. Maybe we can make this a more coherent discussion.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2005 11:49 am
candidone1 wrote:
woiyo wrote:
This is a JOKE and a politically motivated ploy.

It is one thing to classify Human Rights violations against your own people, but to think that ANY FORM imprisionment would NOT qualify as a HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION is the joke.

This is why I can not take AI seriously. When you have genocide happening in many countries in Africa and Asia, how stupid is it to classify "so-called" prisioner abuse a human rights violation.


Yeah, that Abu Ghraib Photoshop job was a hoot wasn't it.
That musta taken some time to manufacture and manipulate huh?

Why don't you speak to the abuses in Asia and Africa. Maybe we can make this a more coherent discussion.


I have the objective ability to understand the difference between treatment of prisioners of war and your countries own citizens.

Apparently, you can not. So if you want to support a group such as AI who ignores the genocide in Africa while they suggest treatment of prisioners of war as gross violations, do not expect any argument from me. The total illogical conclusion you and AI have come to can not be debated intelligently.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2005 11:54 am
A sidebar, AI supported John Kerry for president and their most senior members contributed the maximum amount allowed ($2K, a trifle, but notable nonetheless), to the DNC to support Kerry's election run.

Maybe we should funnel all campaign contributions through the U.N.?
0 Replies
 
candidone1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2005 11:58 am
woiyo wrote:
candidone1 wrote:
woiyo wrote:
This is a JOKE and a politically motivated ploy.

It is one thing to classify Human Rights violations against your own people, but to think that ANY FORM imprisionment would NOT qualify as a HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION is the joke.

This is why I can not take AI seriously. When you have genocide happening in many countries in Africa and Asia, how stupid is it to classify "so-called" prisioner abuse a human rights violation.


Yeah, that Abu Ghraib Photoshop job was a hoot wasn't it.
That musta taken some time to manufacture and manipulate huh?

Why don't you speak to the abuses in Asia and Africa. Maybe we can make this a more coherent discussion.


I have the objective ability to understand the difference between treatment of prisioners of war and your countries own citizens.

Apparently, you can not. So if you want to support a group such as AI who ignores the genocide in Africa while they suggest treatment of prisioners of war as gross violations, do not expect any argument from me. The total illogical conclusion you and AI have come to can not be debated intelligently.


Re-read the initial post--actually, just skim the bolded parts and then tell me if myself and AI cannot debate this intelligently.
So far, the burden of intellignent debate has landed on you, as you simply have withdrawn without supporting your position beyond a simple drive by post.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2005 11:59 am
woiyo wrote:
candidone1 wrote:
woiyo wrote:
This is a JOKE and a politically motivated ploy.

It is one thing to classify Human Rights violations against your own people, but to think that ANY FORM imprisionment would NOT qualify as a HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION is the joke.

This is why I can not take AI seriously. When you have genocide happening in many countries in Africa and Asia, how stupid is it to classify "so-called" prisioner abuse a human rights violation.


Yeah, that Abu Ghraib Photoshop job was a hoot wasn't it.
That musta taken some time to manufacture and manipulate huh?

Why don't you speak to the abuses in Asia and Africa. Maybe we can make this a more coherent discussion.


I have the objective ability to understand the difference between treatment of prisioners of war and your countries own citizens.

Apparently, you can not. So if you want to support a group such as AI who ignores the genocide in Africa while they suggest treatment of prisioners of war as gross violations, do not expect any argument from me. The total illogical conclusion you and AI have come to can not be debated intelligently.


I believe that the AI can walk and chew gum at the same time.

http://web.amnesty.org/web/ar2001.nsf/regAFR/regAFR?OpenDocument

AFRICA

Highlights of Amnesty International Report 2001
Covering events from January to December 2000


Continuing armed and inter-ethnic conflict in many countries continued to fuel gross human rights abuses. In Burundi, Guinea, Liberia, Sierra Leone, Angola, the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and Sudan , war resulted in large scale killing of civilians, rape, torture, '' disappearances'' and massive population displacement. Both government and rebel forces were responsible for extrajudicial executions of suspected opponents and hapless civilians.

Sierra Leone suffered appalling atrocities (abduction, rape, amputation) as they were caught in the conflict between government and rebel forces. The plight of refugees in Angola, Burundi, the DRC and Sudan was equally serious.

Sudanese government troops pursued a scorched-earth strategy by forcibly displacing civilians in areas of the south with oil fields. Humanitarian flights by relief agencies for refugees, especially in Western Upper Nile, were banned. All parties to the conflict committed gross human rights abuses against civilians in the contested areas, including indiscriminate bombing, abduction, enslavement and forcible recruitment.

In Burundi , the signing of the Arusha peace accord in August brought little relief from the fighting as government and rebel forces battled for the control of the capital and neighbouring communes. Hundreds of civilians were killed in the process. International pressure forced the government to dismantle '' regroupment''camps into which as many as 350,000 civilians had been forced.

The international community made efforts to resolve the conflict in the DRC , Sierra Leone and between Eritrea and Ethiopia , including strengthening UN peacekeeping operations. Action was also taken to halt the trade in diamonds used to procure arms in Angola and Sierra Leone.

Throughout the year, Amnesty International received many consistent and substantiated reports of torture and ill-treatment of detainees in at least 32 countries. The pattern that emerged was of torture being used almost on a routine basis by security operatives and where governments, by failing to remedy the situation, appeared to condone the practice. In countries such as Cameroon, Liberia and Sudan , criminal suspects were routinely assaulted and subjected to vicious and prolonged periods of torture. The practice was endemic among security forces and resulted in many deaths in custody. The failure to call human rights violators to account led directly to continued abuses, thus illustrating a frightening degree of casualness and sense of impunity amongst security forces.

In Nigeria , the introduction of Shari'a law in many northern states led to harsh corporal punishments for offences including theft, consumption of alcohol, gambling and sexual misdemeanors.

Although many perpetrators of human rights abuses continued to escape justice in Africa, the UN Security Council, in a major move to end impunity in situations of armed conflict, resolved to establish a Special Court for Sierra Leone. In June 2000, a joint United Nations/ Organization of African Unity Commission of Inquiry was appointed to investigate hundreds of alleged extrajudicial executions in 1998.

Politically motivated harassment of opponents remained public policy in Kenya, Tanzania, Cameroon, Togo, Liberia, Burkina Faso and Zimbabwe. Government officials systematically used their positions to gravely undermine freedom of expression and of association. In Zimbabwe, members of the judiciary and the press were constantly under physical threat. When security forces used force to disperse peaceful marches and demonstrations, they frequently arrested those taking part and assaulted them in custody.

HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS IN AFRICA DETAILED IN AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL'S ANNUAL REPORT 2001

EXTRAJUDICIAL EXECUTIONS
Confirmed or possible extrajudicial executions were carried out in 24 countries.

''DISAPPEARANCES''
People ''disappeared'' or remained ''disappeared'' from previous years in at least 9 countries.

TORTURE AND ILL-TREATMENT
People were reportedly tortured or ill-treated by security forces, police or other state authorities in 32 countries.

PRISONERS OF CONSCIENCE
Confirmed or possible prisoners of conscience were held in 21 countries.

DETENTION WITHOUT CHARGE
People were arbitrarily arrested and detained, or were held in detention without charge or trial, in 25 countries.

HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES BY ARMED OPPOSITION GROUPS
Armed opposition groups committed serious human rights abuses such as deliberate and arbitrary killings of civilians, torture and hostage-taking in 24 countries.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2005 12:03 pm
cjhsa wrote:
Maybe we should funnel all campaign contributions through the U.N.?


Amnesty International is not an agency of the United Nations. Man, the conservatives would be lost without the U.N. to bullyrag . . . the organization they love to hate.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2005 12:04 pm
I never said it was.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2005 12:06 pm
Then why did you bring up the U.N. in a discussion of Amnesty International? Why in particular, did you bring it up after alluding to contributions by A.I. member's to Kerry's campaign? The organization the right loves to hate. I rest my case . . .
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2005 12:10 pm
It was just a suggestion.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2005 12:12 pm
Oh Yeah, like you were serious . . .

Puh-lease . . .
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2005 12:19 pm
I threw it out for the purpose of thoughtful discusssion. Anyone thoughtful today?
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2005 12:21 pm
Link to article supporting claim of Kerry support by AI.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20050602-120456-1031r.htm
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2005 12:28 pm
CJ, what precisely do you contend the issue of support for Kerry by employees of Amnesty International has to do with the charges leveled at the United States by Amnesty International? That might engender some thoughtful discussion.
0 Replies
 
 

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