Proof of god is a moral question. Do you see the morals shown for god as good or evil?

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Proof of god is a moral question. Do you see the morals shown for god as good or evil?

Religions tout themselves as being the final word in moral issues, even though secular law has rejected as too barbaric most of those laws. Not that they were original to Christianity as many of the older traditions had variants of the same laws.

To me, a moral god would cure and never kill. That is the position Jesus took towards the non-believers.

Jesus said to love all people including your enemies and if Jesus is Yahweh then he too must love all and save all just as Jesus would.

Jesus would say that God killing instead of curing is evil.

Jesus would say that God curing instead of killing is good.

If god cures instead of killing then there is no hell as a good god or Jesus would have no use for purposeless torture and death.

Thoughts?

Regards
DL

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@Greatest I am,

Let me ask you some questions before I reply to your question. What is purpose of life in this world in your opinion? What is justice?

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@HabibUrrehman,

HabibUrrehman wrote:

Let me ask you some questions before I reply to your question. What is purpose of life in this world in your opinion? What is justice?

For justice, I cannot define it better than the dictionaries.

As to our purpose and raison d'être, there are likely more opinions out there than what I can shake a stick at, but now that our survival takes up so little of our time, I would say that our main raison d'être should focus on gaining knowledge so as to develop our wisdom.

Better to have our brains die when we actually die than be thoughtless sheeple all of ones life and have someone else do our thinking for us.

Regards
DL

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@Greatest I am,

and do you believe in life hereafter?

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@Greatest I am,

God is (ALL) - Good and Evil are 'labels'.
God is (ALL).
EVERYTHING IS GOD
GOD IS EVERYTHING

Until you Understand this... Amun/Amen - So be it - So it Be - .

You'd rather 'limit' God, by saying 'God is this, God is that' - Than accept that it's ALL God.

Shiva feeding shiva (Good analogy).

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@HabibUrrehman,

HabibUrrehman wrote:

and do you believe in life hereafter?

To believe anything without proof or evidence is foolish and there is no proof or evidence for a hereafter. So no.

When my religions says that at some point of enlightenment, we will never die, they are talking mental death, in terms of never losing an argument.

That is one of the drawbacks of Gnostic Christianity. We lose the great pleasure of losing an argument and actually learning something new.

Regards
DL

1 Reply

@mark noble,

mark noble wrote:

God is (ALL) - Good and Evil are 'labels'.
God is (ALL).
EVERYTHING IS GOD
GOD IS EVERYTHING

Until you Understand this... Amun/Amen - So be it - So it Be - .

You'd rather 'limit' God, by saying 'God is this, God is that' - Than accept that it's ALL God.

Shiva feeding shiva (Good analogy).

I am a Gnostic Christian and you are preaching to the quire.

We say the same as you just did.

Do not confuse my arguing against bible god as me believing in Yahweh.

I argue to try to mitigate the harm the mainstream religions do with their homophobic and misogynous teachings and ways.

Regards
DL

1 Reply

@Greatest I am,

Quote:

To believe anything without proof or evidence is foolish and there is no proof or evidence for a hereafter. So no.

Fair enough.
Suppose a person killed 100 people and never get caught, he lived a good life and died of natural causes. How do you justify his actions in his life? Where is the justice?

Now take the second scenario, let's suppose that this person is caught and is sentenced for life. Is it justice to take life of one individual at the cost of 100 innocent lives. Why should the family of this killer suffer in this world because of his actions.

Let's look at this in a different angle now. I am sure you believe in good and bad but how you define what is good and what is bad? It is generally accepted that robbing people is a bad idea but if it benefits me and I am so powerful that law enforcement agencies can't arrest me then you can ever stop me from robbing/stealing. If I will never be punished in this worldly life. Where is the justice?

Let's look yet another situation. Suppose, I am born in a very rich family and is not that smart but I have a well established business empire and my every night is spent with a different girl even though I am married. I do all crimes in the society but people still respect me on my face because I am rich. Is this all because I am smart or is this because I was born rich. What if I was born in a poor family. Could I afford doing all this? Why we have double standards for rich and poor. Where is the justice? Why one need to go through suffering and other lives a luxurious life?

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@HabibUrrehman,

HabibUrrehman wrote:

Quote:
To believe anything without proof or evidence is foolish and there is no proof or evidence for a hereafter. So no.

Fair enough.
Suppose a person killed 100 people and never get caught, he lived a good life and died of natural causes. How do you justify his actions in his life? Where is the justice?

Now take the second scenario, let's suppose that this person is caught and is sentenced for life. Is it justice to take life of one individual at the cost of 100 innocent lives. Why should the family of this killer suffer in this world because of his actions.

Let's look at this in a different angle now. I am sure you believe in good and bad but how you define what is good and what is bad? It is generally accepted that robbing people is a bad idea but if it benefits me and I am so powerful that law enforcement agencies can't arrest me then you can ever stop me from robbing/stealing. If I will never be punished in this worldly life. Where is the justice?

Let's look yet another situation. Suppose, I am born in a very rich family and is not that smart but I have a well established business empire and my every night is spent with a different girl even though I am married. I do all crimes in the society but people still respect me on my face because I am rich. Is this all because I am smart or is this because I was born rich. What if I was born in a poor family. Could I afford doing all this? Why we have double standards for rich and poor. Where is the justice? Why one need to go through suffering and other lives a luxurious life?

Life and if we get justice, at the end of the day, is a coin toss buddy.

No one ever guaranteed anyone justice, health, wealth or a decent body.

That is why secular law has worked so hard to mitigate the damage we can do to each other.

Your thinking is ok but think globally/demographically and not locally.

You get a different view sometimes.

I just answered another query with links that speak to how good or evil the world is.

Let me reprint it here.

Without a ruler to impose order, we would have chaos.
You would like that even less.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL2LMTRoWlA

I hate to burst your delusional bubble as to how evil the world is, but listen to this first quick link and if you believe the data, there are stats at the end of the second link that shows just how well we are doing buddy.

You see a half full glass of goodness while I see an overflowing glass of it.

The third link is for a giggle if you recognise your thinking as false after the first two links. No peeking ahead now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ADgh3yCSdM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLulcfyqrc0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Oww4Ap3YZA

This next is just to show you the history of our collective benevolence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbkSRLYSojo

Regards
DL

1 Reply

@Greatest I am,

You just gave me links to several YouTube videos and did not address any question. I would rather prefer a written response in this thread if possible. That would be more of one to one communication, otherwise, I could post some links to YouTube and some articles as well.

You admitted that without a ruler there will be chaos in this world. These rulers are human beings and most of them are corrupt. My examples in my previous post actually apply 100% to most of these rulers who have absolute power and they can do whatever they want. That is not justice.
The true ruler is God and he has given us Divine guidance to live our lives in this world. Life in this world is a test and since it is a test there will never be true justice in this world. Hence the belief in life hereafter makes perfect sense for the tests we go through in our lives and for the evils we did to others in this life.

2 Replies

@HabibUrrehman,

HabibUrrehman wrote:

You just gave me links to several YouTube videos and did not address any question. I would rather prefer a written response in this thread if possible. That would be more of one to one communication, otherwise, I could post some links to YouTube and some articles as well.

You admitted that without a ruler there will be chaos in this world. These rulers are human beings and most of them are corrupt. My examples in my previous post actually apply 100% to most of these rulers who have absolute power and they can do whatever they want. That is not justice.
The true ruler is God and he has given us Divine guidance to live our lives in this world. Life in this world is a test and since it is a test there will never be true justice in this world. Hence the belief in life hereafter makes perfect sense for the tests we go through in our lives and for the evils we did to others in this life.

You ignore the facts and stats I gave to maintain your twisted views.

Get honest or get lost with your supernaturalstupid thinking.

Regards
DL

1 Reply

@HabibUrrehman,

HabibUrrehman wrote:

The true ruler is God and he has given us Divine guidance to live our lives in this world.

So you think thaqt a genocidal son murdering god can give you good guidance.

You sure set a low bar for the genocidal prick you follow. Satan murders fewer in scriptures than the murderer you favor.

Regards
DL

0 Replies

@Greatest I am,

It is useless to debate with ignorants like you who can’t understand logic and who deny facts without any proof. Why you even ask such questions when you can’t tolerate views of other people and fail to have a dialogue in a respectful manner?

1 Reply

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@Greatest I am,

Why do you argue against 'bible-god'?

Is it fair to say - Your 'soujourn' NEEDS the 'bible-god' to contest with, so to reinforce and reaffirm your spirits' true form?

Would either of us (you, I, everyone) be where we're at - Had the 'bible-god' not existed?

Samson - Believed his strength lie in his hair (appearance/EGO) - Was seduced, easily, by 'temptations' lure' (AlterEGO) - He discovered Himself in the midst of Pride and shame.

Now 'blind' to the sight of his 'demons' method of impregnation (Visual-EGO) - True strength came forth.

If your right eye offends' " " ".

Does this story of EGOs' demise Not belong in the minds of those who seek guidance toward 'Source'?

Thankyou for being, DL.
namaste

1 Reply

@HabibUrrehman,

HabibUrrehman wrote:

It is useless to debate with ignorants like you who can’t understand logic and who deny facts without any proof. Why you even ask such questions when you can’t tolerate views of other people and fail to have a dialogue in a respectful manner?

I am always there for that if I can find a theists with half a brain and reasonable manners.

I never deny facts that have proofs but stupid people posit supernatural facts and gods without any proof at all and stupidly try to build and ideology that idolizes a genocidal son murdering prick that they can somehow label as good.

Regards
DL

1 Reply

@mark noble,

mark noble wrote:

Quote:
Why do you argue against 'bible-god'?

Because his religions are such vile homophobic and misogynous entities who victimize half the planet by denying all equal rights and citizenship.

Quote:
Is it fair to say - Your 'soujourn' NEEDS the 'bible-god' to contest with, so to reinforce and reaffirm your spirits' true form?

Yes.

Quote:
Would either of us (you, I, everyone) be where we're at - Had the 'bible-god' not existed?

Yes as bible god does not exist. That is why your Karaite Jew brethren put man above god.

Samson - Believed his strength lie in his hair (appearance/EGO) - Was seduced, easily, by 'temptations' lure' (AlterEGO) - He discovered Himself in the midst of Pride and shame.

Now 'blind' to the sight of his 'demons' method of impregnation (Visual-EGO) - True strength came forth.

If your right eye offends' " " ".

Does this story of EGOs' demise Not belong in the minds of those who seek guidance toward 'Source'?

Thankyou for being, DL.
namaste

Thanks for your last.

Ego is what we all are. it is what seeks and is always alive.

Your own Jewish esoteric ecumenist roots urges us to quiet our egos to a point of no thought so that the divine can fill the void, so to speak. We them retake our more active and new ego with it's revelation and seek anew.

Being esoteric ecumenists, the seeking never ends.

I am not that familiar with what the orthodox Jews are believing right now but I do not think that being literalists of the Torah and other holy books is what they have deteriorated to.

If they have and are no longer led by your Karaites, then shame on Israel as they no longer struggle for and against god. They have become idol worshipers.

Regards
DL

1 Reply

@Greatest I am,

I don't understand your references to 'your jewish.......'?
I'm not jewish - Are you saying that All, other than Gnostic, is of jewish roots, and equally heretic (by gnostic decree)?

The gospel of Thomas teaches - Bring forth that which is within you, (The Great Divde) where EGO (Demiurge, Monad) dwelleth not - and it will save you - Do not bring it forth and it will destroy you.

I like Thomas, and Judas' gospels.

I agree with gnostic thought - Not the Duality of source, god, though.
God is Everything, Everywhere

namaste

1 Reply

@mark noble,

mark noble wrote:

I don't understand your references to 'your jewish.......'?
I'm not jewish - Are you saying that All, other than Gnostic, is of jewish roots, and equally heretic (by gnostic decree)?

The gospel of Thomas teaches - Bring forth that which is within you, (The Great Divde) where EGO (Demiurge, Monad) dwelleth not - and it will save you - Do not bring it forth and it will destroy you.

I like Thomas, and Judas' gospels.

I agree with gnostic thought - Not the Duality of source, god, though.
God is Everything, Everywhere

namaste

I explained why your Namaste made me think you were a Jews elsewhere.
They sign off the same way.

As a Gnostic Christian I am pleased that you like some of our writings and thinking but we have not taken the duality out of god. Yin without Yang to compliment it a rather strange view.

We do see god in all, but even as we see here and now as evolving perfection, that does not mean we do not see the bit of evil that exists in our overall evolution. That evil is just overshadowed by the greater good of our not going extinct.

In fact, we see all human against human evil as a function of our evolution.

That is why we agree that we are all sinners.

Even Christianity used to think that as shown by their Exsultet hymn that calls Adam's sin a happy fault and necessary to gods plan. It is if you work it into our evolution.

Christians seem to have gone more for Original Sin than the Jewish Original virtue which is what we gained in Eden. Christians keep running away when I ask them to explain their hymn.

There seems to be really poor apologetics for god in all religions. A shame that as the general population is getting dumbed down.

Regards
DL

2 Replies

@Greatest I am,

Arguing religion is as great a waste of time as arguing politics.

2 Replies

Proof of god is a moral question. Do you see the morals shown for god as good or evil?

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