McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Jun, 2005 02:14 pm
This was in the paper today:

Senior Democrats are calling for the closure of America's detention centre in Guantanamo, Cuba, saying it has become a "propaganda and recruitment tool" for terrorists in the wake of continued allegations of prisoner abuse.
A leading senator, Joseph Biden of Delaware, suggested the time had come to consider a gradual closure of the facility, arguing its worsening reputation around the world was helping to recruit people bent on hurting the US.
"This has become the greatest propaganda tool that exists for recruiting of terrorists around the world. And it is unnecessary to be in that position."
(...)
On Friday, the Pentagon concluded there had indeed been some scattered cases where the Koran had been desecrated in the facility, though none flushed in a lavatory. In one case, a guard's urine had splashed on a Koran. Also recorded were cases where the books had been kicked or stamped on by guards and interrogators or made wet when guards threw water balloons into cells.
The revelation triggered a familiar White House response. Blaming lower-ranking soldiers was also the strategy at the outbreak of the abuse scandal at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
"It is unfortunate some have chosen to take out of context a few isolated incidents by a few individuals," presidential spokesman Scott McClellan said in a statement from George Bush's ranch in Crawford, Texas. He noted that the report said there were in fact more cases of the book being desecrated by inmates than by guards. (Although why that should be is not explained.)
Conditions at Guantanamo, where suspects are held without charge and without access to legal representation, are rapidly becoming a public relations nightmare for the White House. Last week, Amnesty International likened the high-security facility to the Gulag …


http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=644566
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Jun, 2005 02:28 pm
They proved to no longer be of use so were let go.

The 13 or so that have been re-captured fighting American forces were what? Naive? Innocent? No threat to others?
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2005 04:06 am
McGentrix wrote:
They proved to no longer be of use so were let go.

The 13 or so that have been re-captured fighting American forces were what? Naive? Innocent? No threat to others?


Probably patriots defending their homeland and their beliefs, from their point of view. And not very successfully, apparently. Who knows. Anyway, protocols exist for captured enemy soldiers.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2005 06:45 am
You are very correct, for once. There are very good protocols for capturing enemy soldiers and when these terrorists/insurgents wish to act like soldiers and follow the rules soldiers follow we will treat them like soldiers. Until then, the will be treated for what they are, illegal combatants.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2005 07:33 am
This was also in the paper SOURCE


Newsweek media manager becomes Bush's anti-drug VP
6/7/2005 7:04:00 AM GMT

The Newsweek sparked the Muslim world's outrage with publishing the Qur'an abuse report

Newsweek's Washington media relations manager, Rosanna Maietta, has quit her job in the magazine to work as a Vice President for the White House's Anti-Drug campaign, according to RAW STORY.

The news surfaced on Friday in an email to the press. Maietta will join the international public relations firm Fleishman-Hillard.

"After five years at Newsweek, I'm leaving on Monday to pursue a new adventure at PR firm Fleishman-Hillard," she wrote.

"It's been a great pleasure to work with you over the years, and I hope we will continue to do so in my new capacity: VP for the White House's anti-drug campaign."

Maietta will take her new post in July, she said.

In a follow-up call, Maietta stressed that she won't be working for the White House, but for the firm that handles its anti-drug campaign.

Fleishman-Hillard was the founder and the leader of the White House's anti-drug campaigns, particularly against marijuana.

The firm says it has succeeded in changing perceptions about marijuana, "providing a counter-point to the many pro-marijuana messages in the media."

Fleishman-Hillard says that during a 2002 run, the proportion of stories favoring an anti-drug message increased from 26 percent to 78 percent, while the proportion of unfavorable stories decreased from 30 percent to just seven percent.

The campaign's leading messages include "the power of parents to prevent youth drug use," "outdated perceptions about marijuana contribute to increased use," "marijuana is addictive," and "marijuana is riskier than you think."

Under fire for publishing a story that led to massive protests all over the Muslim world, Newsweek magazine retracted its report in which it said that military investigators studying abuse cases at Guantanamo have found that U.S. soldiers were desecrating the Qur'an.

"Based on what we know now, we are retracting our original story that an internal military investigation had uncovered Qur'an abuse at Guantanamo Bay," Newsweek Editor Mark Whitaker said, a day after apologizing for the report.

But later, the White House and the Pentagon admitted that the Qur'an desecration report was true.

Analysts believe that the Newsweek was initially forced by the United States to retract the Qur'an abuse report.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2005 07:43 am
aljazeera.com wrote:
But later, the White House and the Pentagon admitted that the Qur'an desecration report was true.

Analysts believe that the Newsweek was initially forced by the United States to retract the Qur'an abuse report.


If nothing else, this proves you can't believe what you read in aljazeera.com.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2005 07:44 am
Although it will always be denied that its official policy, I dont think the US military mind too much if stories of abuse degredation and torture become generally accepted. Its just another weapon in the Global War of Terror.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2005 07:47 am
Ticomaya wrote:
aljazeera.com wrote:
But later, the White House and the Pentagon admitted that the Qur'an desecration report was true.

Analysts believe that the Newsweek was initially forced by the United States to retract the Qur'an abuse report.


If nothing else, this proves you can't believe what you read in aljazeera.com.


Facts to support your "contention", please, spinmeister.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2005 07:54 am
Are you serious?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2005 08:00 am
Ticomaya wrote:
Are you serious?


It'll only reinforce your position, Tico. Why not give it a whirl?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2005 08:03 am
Ticomaya wrote:
Are you serious?


That's why it's funny, Tico. He actually is.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2005 08:06 am
McGentrix wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
Are you serious?


That's why it's funny, Tico. He actually is.


And your research assistant/gofer, Tico. Treat him well, okay? Smile
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2005 08:13 am
Ticomaya wrote:
aljazeera.com wrote:
But later, the White House and the Pentagon admitted that the Qur'an desecration report was true.

Analysts believe that the Newsweek was initially forced by the United States to retract the Qur'an abuse report.


If nothing else, this proves you can't believe what you read in aljazeera.com.


Tactics Approved by Rumsfeld Put Soldiers at Risk

On May 17, Pentagon spokesman Larry DiRita told the public "we've not seen specific, credible allegations" of Quran mistreatment by U.S. guards or interrogators. Seventeen days later, the Pentagon acknowledged "that soldiers and interrogators kicked the Muslim holy book, got copies wet, stood on a Koran during an interrogation and inadvertently sprayed urine on another copy." That information was released at 7:15 PM on Friday night, after the evening newscasts, the best time to bury a story. But the specifics of the latest administration deception obscure the larger point: Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld specifically authorized disrespecting one of the world's largest religions as an interrogation tactic. That ill-conceived policy has endangered the lives of U.S. soldiers and impeded the progress of peace and democracy in the Middle East.

RELIGIOUS DEGRADATION APPROVED BY RUMSFELD: The White House described the Quran mishandling as "a few isolated incidents by a few individuals." But religious degradation was an interrogation tactic approved at the highest levels. In December 2002, Donald Rumsfeld "authorized interrogation tactics at Guantanamo Bay that included the removal of religious items, forced grooming such as shaving facial hair, and removal of clothing." These tactics were "designed to offend Muslims." An investigation of Guantanamo Bay by Vice Admiral Albert T. Church "found cases in which a female interrogator 'touched and spoke to detainees in a sexually suggestive manner in order to incur stress based on the detainees' religious beliefs.'"

ADMINISTRATION POLICIES PUT SOLDIERS AT RISK: Yesterday, Sen. Joe Biden (D-DE) argued that Guantanamo Bay "has become the greatest propaganda tool that exists for recruiting of terrorists around the world." As a result, "more Americans are in jeopardy." Detention policies also impede broader efforts to win over hearts and minds in the Middle East. The Christian Science Monitor reports "to much of the world the abuse of prisoners in US custody may now be emblematic of American foreign policy as a whole."

OFFICIALS IMPLICATED IN ABUSE GET PROMOTIONS: It's not only the abuse that is making soldiers' lives difficult; it's the administration's reaction. The top officials who authorized harsh treatment of detainees have been promoted. General Dan K. McNeill, who oversaw operations in Afghanistan during the time that detainees were tortured to death at the Bagram Air Force Base, "received a fourth star and was promoted to Commanding General U.S. Army Forces Command." Maj. Gen. Barbara Fast, "the highest-ranking intelligence officer so far tied to the Abu Ghraib scandal, took charge of the Army's main interrogation training facility ... last month." And the list goes on. It's tough to make the case that the United States is taking the abuse seriously when top officials involved are rewarded.

WHITE HOUSE BLAMES MEDIA: White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan used the administration's admission of Quran mistreatment as another opportunity to blame the media. McClellan said that it was "unfortunate" that some media outlets "have chosen to take [the incidents] out of context." McClellan stressed that "99.9 percent" of Qurans were not mishandled. In a related story, there are 193 countries in the world - 99.5 percent were not invaded by the United States based on false claims the country possessed weapons of mass destruction.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2005 08:20 am
JTT wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
Are you serious?


That's why it's funny, Tico. He actually is.


And your research assistant/gofer, Tico. Treat him well, okay? Smile


Esteemed colleague.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2005 08:23 am
McGentrix wrote:
You are very correct, for once. There are very good protocols for capturing enemy soldiers and when these terrorists/insurgents wish to act like soldiers and follow the rules soldiers follow we will treat them like soldiers. Until then, the will be treated for what they are, illegal combatants.


Was there any whining and kvetching when these same non-uniformed Afghanistan soldiers were fighting the Soviets? How much of the funding from the US went to purchase a decent set of uniforms for the Afghan Army?

I wonder if a bit of research might turn up any concerns being expressed for Afghan POWs in that war. If you don't need McG for research, Tico, could you lend him to me for a bit?
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2005 08:26 am
JTT wrote:
Quote:
I wonder if a bit of research might turn up any concerns being expressed for Afghan POWs in that war. If you don't need McG for research, Tico, could you lend him to me for a bit?


Careful jtt. A man is known by the company he keeps. Laughing
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2005 08:27 am
JTT wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
JTT wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
aljazeera.com wrote:
But later, the White House and the Pentagon admitted that the Qur'an desecration report was true.

Analysts believe that the Newsweek was initially forced by the United States to retract the Qur'an abuse report.


If nothing else, this proves you can't believe what you read in aljazeera.com.


Facts to support your "contention", please, spinmeister.


Are you serious?


It'll only reinforce your position, Tico. Why not give it a whirl?


Since you were uncharacteristically polite, I will oblige.

-----

Aljazeera.com said: "But later, the White House and the Pentagon admitted that the Qur'an desecration report was true."

Now, I've not seen the report where the White House and the Pentagon admitted the Newsweek's report as true, so if one exists I'm not aware of it. This is Newsweek's May 9th report in question:

Newsweek wrote:
May 9 issue - Investigators probing interrogation abuses at the U.S. detention center at Guantanamo Bay have confirmed some infractions alleged in internal FBI e-mails that surfaced late last year. Among the previously unreported cases, sources tell NEWSWEEK: interrogators, in an attempt to rattle suspects, flushed a Qur'an down a toilet ...

Link.

A week later on May 16th, Newsweek retracted the story:

Quote:
Newsweek late today issued a retraction of its May 9 article that alleged the U.S. military had desecrated the Koran while interrogating prisoners at Guantanamo Bay.

"Based on what we know now, we are retracting our original story that an internal military investigation had uncovered [Koran] abuse at Guantanamo Bay," said Newsweek editor Mark Whitaker in a statement issued this afternoon.

Link.


Another week later, May 23rd, Newsweek wrote the following:

Quote:
May 23 issue - By the end of the week, the rioting had spread from Afghanistan throughout much of the Muslim world, from Gaza to Indonesia. Mobs shouting "Protect our Holy Book!" burned down government buildings and ransacked the offices of relief organizations in several Afghan provinces. The violence cost at least 15 lives, injured scores of people and sent a shudder through Washington, where officials worried about the stability of moderate regimes in the region.

The spark was apparently lit at a press conference held on Friday, May 6, by Imran Khan, a Pakistani cricket legend and strident critic of Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf. Brandishing a copy of that week's NEWSWEEK (dated May 9), Khan read a report that U.S. interrogators at Guantánamo prison had placed the Qur'an on toilet seats and even flushed one. "This is what the U.S. is doing," exclaimed Khan, "desecrating the Qur'an." His remarks, as well as the outraged comments of Muslim clerics and Pakistani government officials, were picked up on local radio and played throughout neighboring Afghanistan. Radical Islamic foes of the U.S.-friendly regime of Hamid Karzai quickly exploited local discontent with a poor economy and the continued presence of U.S. forces, and riots began breaking out last week.

Late last week Pentagon spokesman Lawrence DiRita told NEWSWEEK that its original story was wrong. The brief PERISCOPE item ("SouthCom Showdown") had reported on the expected results of an upcoming U.S. Southern Command investigation into the abuse of prisoners at Gitmo. According to NEWSWEEK, SouthCom investigators found that Gitmo interrogators had flushed a Qur'an down a toilet in an attempt to rattle detainees. While various released detainees have made allegations about Qur'an desecration, the Pentagon has, according to DiRita, found no credible evidence to support them.

...

Link.

Four days later, the Pentagon identified 5 incidents of "mishandling" of the Koran at Gitmo:

Quote:
Pentagon Confirms Koran Incidents
'Mishandling' Cases Preceded Guidelines Established in 2003

By Josh White and Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, May 27, 2005; Page A01

Pentagon officials said yesterday that investigators have identified five incidents of military guards and an interrogator "mishandling" the Koran at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, but characterized the episodes as minor and said most occurred before specific rules on the treatment of Muslim holy items were issued.

Brig. Gen. Jay W. Hood, commander of Joint Task Force Guantanamo, said investigators have looked into 13 specific allegations of Koran desecration at the prison dating to early 2002 and have determined eight of them to be unfounded, lacking credibility or the result of accidental touching of the holy book. Of the five cases of mishandling, three were "very likely" deliberate and two were "very likely accidental," he said. But Hood declined to provide details, citing an ongoing investigation.

Hood's comments marked the first time the Pentagon has confirmed mistreatment of the Muslim book at Guantanamo Bay. Captives and some military personnel there have made claims of Koran desecration, but in a statement last week, Pentagon spokesman Lawrence T. Di Rita said the Defense Department had received no credible claims of such abuse. Nevertheless, he said, officials were reviewing the allegations.

Hood took pains to specifically deny a now-retracted report in Newsweek magazine's May 9 issue that said officials had confirmed a detainee's claim that a guard had flushed a Koran down a toilet. The White House, the Pentagon and others have linked that report to riots overseas that left 16 people dead.

...

Link.

Neither the White House or the Pentagon have ever given any credence to Newsweek's May 9th Periscope report that a Gitmo guard had flushed a Koran down the toilet. And that, sir, is the basis for my assertion that when aljazeera reports that the White House and Pentagon has admitted the truth of Newsweek's Koran desecration report -- referring clearly to the May 9th report-- it is simply false and misleading -- and intentionally so, IMO.

If you think otherwise, please provide facts to support your contention.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2005 08:42 am
But as I discussed with regard to how the conservatives used the Newsweek story, this is all a coordinated campaign of misdirection and confusion: by generating endless stories about how Newsweek "caused" deaths by its "irresponsible" coverage and about similar irrelevancies,

Bush's defenders hope to avoid ever addressing the much more serious questions raised by Bush's unending assaults on individual rights and civil liberties, those of Americans themselves as well as of others. And I do not mean that it is a "coordinated campaign" in the sense of a conscious conspiracy. A conspiracy is not even necessary: all of Bush's defenders know these arguments, they read and link to each all the time, and they all know how this game is played. They don't have to "plan" this kind of assault at all, which makes it that much more dangerous.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/stories/2005/06/05/thePropagandaCampaignContinuescivilLibertiesChickenLittles.html
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2005 09:02 am
JTT wrote:
Read on, Tico. It's got you in this article, and McG, Lash, Georgeob1, ..


Talk about misdirection ... at your request I addressed a specific issue in my last post: the false and misleading statement by aljazeera.com that the White House and Pentagon had admitted the truth of the May 9th Newsweek report. That, after all, was the issue I had identified previously which you requested support for. In my last post I explained -- very clearly I believe -- why the statement made by aljazeera was spurious. I then asked you to provide factual support if you felt I was wrong.

You responded by linking to an article in crooksandliars.com ( Rolling Eyes ) that you claim has "got" me. Yet all it does is claim a "coordinated campaign of misdirection and confusion" by conservatives. What's interesting is that it is exactly the "misdirection and confusion" being generated in bogus stories from the likes of Newsweek and Aljazeera.com that I have a problem with, and which I specifically addressed in my last post, and which you seem to be ignoring. When I pointed out that aljazeera.com could not be trusted, you called me on it and requested I provide proof of my contention, which I did. And in response, neither you nor the article you posted addressed the particular and very specific point I've identified.

Now, please add something of substance in your next response. Otherwise I'll conclude I was correct in my initial thought that I was probably wasting my time by responding to you.

JTT wrote:
I'm always polite to you, Tico. You've mistaken brutal honesty for impoliteness.


You're normally very insulting, and you know it.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Jun, 2005 07:50 am
Bookmark
0 Replies
 
 

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