Can Souls in Hell be Forgiven and Saved and Go to Heaven?

@Frank Apisa,

I know it suits you to guess a really really really smart creator would spend billions of years and enormous energy to create intelligent beings, give them the capacity to love, endow them with free will and a sense of fairness, for the sole purpose of forcing their choice to one of monstrous evil; but I can't possibly conjure up a reason for your assertion.

I try to imagine how I might benefit from 'folding my hand' as you say. I see a moral license, not a prerogative for evil necessarily, but freedom from recognizing God as sovereign. I find it a sword with neither handle nor hilt. Grasping it would cause me more damage than I could possibly effect on any rules that might constrain me.

I'm not gonna fold 'em when it's right for me to hold 'em.

1 Reply

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

I know it suits you to guess a really really really smart creator would spend billions of years and enormous energy to create intelligent beings, give them the capacity to love, endow them with free will and a sense of fairness, for the sole purpose of forcing their choice to one of monstrous evil; but I can't possibly conjure up a reason for your assertion.

I try to imagine how I might benefit from 'folding my hand' as you say. I see a moral license, not a prerogative for evil necessarily, but freedom from recognizing God as sovereign. I find it a sword with neither handle nor hilt. Grasping it would cause me more damage than I could possibly effect on any rules that might constrain me.

I'm not gonna fold 'em when it's right for me to hold 'em.

I was talking about selling that sting operation you guys seem to see as so important to the human predicament.

The set up in Eden...is laughable.

Whoever thought it up...was no Aesop.

It has more strings hanging from it than one of my older pieces of underwear.

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@extra medium,

extra medium wrote:

Does anyone here know for an absolute certainty that the Bible actually states human souls in Hell have no chance for forgiveness?

Believe it or not, I did read the Bible, and I don't recall it actually explicitly stating "Once you are in Hell, you no longer have any chance for forgiveness, for Redemption."

That doesn't seem too Christian. Lets assume for a moment there's a Hell. Some people are down there praying to Jesus, begging for forgiveness, begging to be forgiven for not believing in the twisted corrupt Churches while they were on earth. And Jesus just ignores them?

The Jesus I imagine wouldn't ignore them, not even if they were in Hell. The Jesus I know wouldn't be that petty. He doesn't care if they screwed up & they're in Hell....He'd forgive them and go get them.

I believe in God, but I have serious reservations about buying in to the whole 'eternal damnation' piece that Christianity teaches about people who fail the ultimate judgement. But as far as 'what does the bible say' - I'm pretty sure that once a soul experiences final judgement and goes either to paradise or hell, it's a done deal. No 'do-overs'.

1 Reply

@neologist,

Quote:

But the sin of Adam and Eve seems relatively small until you examine its implications.

I agree that it is clear (in Revelations as well) that not all who make it past resurrection will 'get it' and many will voluntarily choose the wrong side. THAT certainly has implications. But it makes sense to me. There are 'sweet little old ladies' who go to church every Sunday who would gladly blow my head off with a celestial cannon just for my attitudes if their thoughts were made real. The real question remains: What does it mean to 'Get It'.

My take on Adam & Eve is a bit different. God wanted and knew they would eventually have the knowledge of good and evil. He just honored their free will enough to let it be their choice to take it. All part of the plan.

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@snood,

Hey ,
Would you rather not believe in it and later burn in hell and wished you did? ( sorry lol)

Or

Believe in it and later if its not real have a laugh about it with God sipping tea ..?

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@Johnjohnjohn,

Yeah, I get your point - nothing to lose and everything to gain by being a 'believer'...
Except...
If your belief makes you limit your life experience by being imprisoned in useless fear and guilt.

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@Johnjohnjohn,

Pascal's Wager is not a valid reason for faith, though it may be a legitimate motivation to investigate.

However, when one investigates, he will find that the soul is mortal (Ezekiel 18:20), and the dead are not conscious, (Ecclesiastes 9:5,10)

How does this fit in with the doctrine of hellfire?

1 Reply

@neologist,

Matthew 10:28 " Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can -- DESTROY-- both soul and body in hell."

Hell isnt eternal if the soul is destroyed ,
so we possibly have two different defintions of hell.

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@extra medium,

God is not a false judge so all will rise if dead and all will know the truth first before final judgment

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@extra medium,

Also when Jesus died on the cross he went to hades and defeated death and freed His brethren.

1 Reply

@Prayforlucifer,

Prayforlucifer wrote:

Also when Jesus died on the cross he went to hades and defeated death and freed His brethren.

Defeated death?
Then why do we die?
Freed his brethren?
Where does it say that?

1 Reply

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

Prayforlucifer wrote:
Also when Jesus died on the cross he went to hades and defeated death and freed His brethren.
Defeated death?
Then why do we die?
Freed his brethren?
Where does it say that?

OK, Neo - do you believe in life after death or are you agnostic about that?

1 Reply

@snood,

snood wrote:

OK, Neo - do you believe in life after death or are you agnostic about that?

I believe in the resurrection (John 5: 28-29). That takes in a lot of people, many of whom we might not expect. I also understand a group of humans will be selected " to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth" - Revelation 5:10

As for me, I am hoping to be among the meek who inherit the earth. ( Matthew 5:5)

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@neologist,

OK, so you believe in eternal life in some respect. So, why the nit-picking about "If Christ defeated death, why do we die?"
Seems pedantic.

1 Reply

@snood,

Well, death has yet to be destroyed

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@neologist,

The way I read it, death is the last foe that Christ defeats, and we share in the victory by having eternal life with him.

I guess I'm just having trouble wrapping my head around how you simultaneously believe in eternal life, and also that death is not defeated.

1 Corinthians 15:55-57:

55 “Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?”[a]
56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Reply

@snood,

OK, Jesus' sacrifice brings us assurance of the resurrection. (John 5:28-29). But we still die until death and hell are destroyed in the "lake of fire" (Revelation 20:14)

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@neologist,

But in the higher perspective, are we not told that this death is only sleep?

1 Reply

@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

But in the higher perspective, are we not told that this death is only sleep?

Yes.
Jesus referred to death as sleep in the account of Lazarus' resurrection at John 11:11-14. And you may recall that Solomon wrote "the dead are conscious of nothing" (Ecclesiastes 9:5,10). But resurrection is apparently not certain for all, as the word 'wicked' does not appear at John 5:28-29.

1 Reply

@neologist,

Can't remember the book, but there is a second resurrection for them. After the millennium I believe.

1 Reply

Can Souls in Hell be Forgiven and Saved and Go to Heaven?

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