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Muslims stage anti-US rallies over Koran abuse report

 
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 04:21 am
Just for giggles -

The full report of the official US Army investigation into the Sgrena incident, in the form of an Adobe Acrobat .pdf file, was released to the media and posted on the DoD's News and Information website, though it was heavilly redacted - redacted by an IT idiot. The cyber censor merely used Acrobat's "Paste" function to cover the words The Army did not want folks to see. Without getting all technogeek, what that means is that the parts to be censored were not removed, they were simply formatted with black overlay. The words were still there.

A simple "Copy without formatting" of the entire text from the .pdf and "Paste" of that text into any other word processing or text editing app delivered a completely uncensored document. In very short order - within minutes of the original release of the Acrobat version - many techno-savvy folks with inquiring minds discovered the security flaw.

Naturally, when word got out, The Army took the flawed version off the web as soon as they heard about the - from their point of view - "problem". Of course, the internet being what it is, fat lot of good that did The Army. Scores, if not hundreds, of bloggers and such had already downloaded the ineptly redacted version.

While you can't get the report from The Army any more, its all over the web. If you'd like to share in the fun, below is a link to a download of the original version, which, if you wish, and if you have a recent version of the free Adobe Acrobat Reader, you can copy (without formatting), and paste into any other text editor - even Notepad. If you'd rather not take that much effort, but still would like to see the entire, uncensored document, I've included a link to a download of the report as rendered by pasting an unformatted copy of the .pdf into MS Word.

Note: these links are directly to the downloads. The files are fairly small, only about 250Kb, so even dialup folks can play.

Redacted .pdf Report (The one The Army released to media - approx 250Kb .pdf file)

MS Word Version of Report (No redaction - "Copy without formatting", remember? Rolling Eyes - approx 250Kb .doc file)

Enjoy.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 04:39 am
Timber,

ever since that report was published I've wondered how somebody could be that stupid. Seriously, without being a technogeek, but that would have been the second thing I would have done, just out of boredom while reading something online: mark the redacted words to see if they were still there. I know I would have done that. I do that frequently.
So, reading about that 'incident', I was thinking, "Yeah, sure. If that hasn't been done on purpose..." The complete document just provided a stronger version of the redacted document. So why not put it online, claiming it had been 'redacted', while really providing the full document, with names and everything. Seriously. Nobody who has ever written one letter in MS Word wouldn't be stupid enough to make such a mistake.
No big thing for me, though, but don't tell me that this just happened.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 04:42 am
Meanwhile back:

Quote:
Anti-US demonstrations continue in Afghan cities

KABUL, May 14 (Xinhuanet) -- The condemnation of reported desecration of Holy Quran by US military has entered its fifth day Saturday in Afghanistan as people in several cities and towns staged demonstrations to register their anger, Afghan sources said.

  "Hundreds of people in northeast Kunduz province came out to the streets and demanded the punishment of those responsible for the offence," a protestor Karim Hamayon told Xinhua from Kunduz city.

The demonstration, he added, was held under tight security and the protestors after two hours of chanting slogans and delivering speeches were peacefully dispersed.

Similar demonstrations, according to local sources, were also held in parts of the neighboring Baghlan province today but all have ended peacefully.

Newsweek, the US-based magazine in a report last week disclosedthat US servicemen in their tactics to rattle Taliban and al-Qaedainmates at Guantanamo Bay had defiled copies of Muslim holy book, the Quran and flushed it down into toilet.

The report sparked violent demonstrations in the post-Taliban conservative Afghanistan and some 27 persons have been killed and more than 100 others wounded since Wednesday.

The protestors warned to continue their demonstrations until the US government offer apology and punish those behind desecration.

In the meantime, the Afghan government has put the police and other law enforcing agencies in high alert to cope with any eventuality.


http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-05/15/content_2959157.htm
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 04:47 am
I find this one most concerning:

Quote:
Afghan clerics threaten Muslim holy war over KoranA group of Afghan Muslim clerics threatened on Sunday to call for a holy war against the United States in three days unless it hands over military interrogators reported to have desecrated the Koran.

The warning came after 16 Afghans were killed and more than 100 hurt last week in the worst anti-U.S. protests across the country since U.S. forces invaded in 2001 to oust the Taliban for sheltering Osama bin Laden and his al Qaeda network.

The clerics in the northeastern province of Badakhshan said they wanted President Bush to handle the matter honestly "and hand the culprits over to an Islamic country for punishment."

"If that does not happen within three days, we will launch a jihad against America," said a statement issued by about 300 clerics, referring to Muslim holy war, after meeting in the main mosque in the provincial capital, Faizabad.

The statement was read out by Abdul Fatah Fayeq, the top judicial official in the mountainous, conservative province near the borders of Tajikistan and China.

Muslim clerics have traditionally been teachers and leaders in Afghan society and throughout its history they have rallied public opinion and sometimes led uprisings against unpopular rulers and foreign occupiers.

...


http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=758873&page=1
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 04:52 am
Good to see that they've decided it actually happened and the "culprits" can be identified.........give me a break as you Americans say. Rolling Eyes

<note the above is sarcasm, I'm not very good at it but I hope I did it right>
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 04:59 am
I think you did, goodfielder...

So what is going to happen? The Army denies that this incident ever took place, whereas these clerics want to have the 'culprits handed over to an Islamic country for punishment.' Obviously, this is not going to happen. So, are they going to launch a new jihad three days from now? This could get pretty messy... Any predictions?
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 05:01 am
Now the story is on CNN:

Quran: Clerics threaten holy war
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 05:48 am
I would predict that the imams and mullahs of Afghanistan will have a certain degree of difficulty to overcome in boarding international flights with their mujahadin . . . so if anyone suffers ill effects from this, it will be the international military contingent in Afghanistan.

I would also point out that even a cursory review of the history of Afghanistan suggests that if there were not this alleged incident for causus belli, the Afghans would readily find another excuse to fight the outsider.
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 06:46 am
Setanta wrote:
I would predict that the imams and mullahs of Afghanistan will have a certain degree of difficulty to overcome in boarding international flights with their mujahadin . . . so if anyone suffers ill effects from this, it will be the international military contingent in Afghanistan.

I would also point out that even a cursory review of the history of Afghanistan suggests that if there were not this alleged incident for causus belli, the Afghans would readily find another excuse to fight the outsider.


Good point. My father was there in WW2. A very liberal man in American poltical terms (solid left-winger in mine) he was disturbed by their proclivity for fighting.

"beware the wily Pathan!" Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 07:19 am
There was a gentleman of mixed French and English descent in the 19th century, by the name of Richard Francis Burton, who became a renowned explorer. It is rather uncanny how many of today's "hot spots" of the Muslim world he visited. He lives on today, anonymously, because he translated the Persian classic The Thousand Nights and the One Night, usually referred to as The Thousand and One Nights, or The Arabian Nights. That's a misnomer, of course, because the Arabs are Semites and the Farsi or Persians are Aryan, and not Arabs at all.

Speeke, who is credited with the discovery of Lake Victoria and the source of the Nile, actually cheated Burton on that bit of exploration. They landed at Mogadishu, secured Somali guides and porters, and camped outside the city the first night. They were set upon in the night by their guides and porters and robbed. Burton managed to escape, although somewhat wounded. Speeke was made a prisoner, and then refused to cooperate, saying he would not walk into captivity. While the main body of the Somalis marched away, a few stayed behind and prodded him with spears. At that point, Speeke jumped up, and with his hands still bound, outran them and reached saftety in Mogadishu. Speeke and Burton eventually made the expedition again, and while Burton was laid low with a fever, Speeke found guides who told him of a great "sea." He did not actually reach the lake, but he returned and told Burton he had had no luck. Later, Speeke returned without Burton, and "discovered" Lake Victoria.

Burton made the hajj to Mecca and Medina, being only the second European to have done so and lived to tell the tale. A German gentleman whose name escapes me was the first. Burton on that occassion passed himself off as a Bosnian Muslim.

What brought all of this to mind was that Burton began his career in the Indian Army. He infiltrated the Pathan tribes of the Hindu Kush, because the Pathans (known today as Pushtun, although there are a variety of spellings and pronunciations) are Aryan, and have pale eyes--deep blue and green are uncommon enough to draw attention, but pale blue and gray eyes are quite common. Burton learned enough of Islam while in the Punjab to pass himself off, and having studied the Urdu language in books, perfected his ability to speak in the Punjab before venturing into the mountains. Hindu Kush means "the killer of Hindus," a name which says it all for the cordiality of the Pathan.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 07:26 am
Lash wrote:
It has the value of:

Once again, it seems that some people are continuing to overreact by placing inflated value on the accusations of those with no credibility, if the reports are untrue.

If this didn't take place at all, the select rabble rousers, who prefer to believe anything negative about US forces do their country a great injustice in blindly falling in line with any and all US criicism, if that's what they're doing....

Looks as if Revel is very hot to buy it--while poking disclaimers throughout her post.

Rice knows what she's supposed to say.

Nobody's book is of more value than anyone else's.


It looks like there may be a reason to buy the story.

It is not so hard to believe given the recent past abuse at the hands of the military involving tactics they knew would offend Muslims.

It is not a matter of who religious book is more of value but what is acceptable when it comes to interrogations.
0 Replies
 
Polarstar
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 10:53 am
Newsweek responds...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7857407/site/newsweek/

...with yet more anonymous sources and allegations.

"Internal FBI E-mails," which Newsweek doesn't provide. It's a good guess that we'll never know the source of those E-mails either.

A "SouthCom investigation that found that Gitmo interrogators had flushed a Qur'an down a toilet." According to the Military, they're still looking for those findings. So where is this investigative report? Newsweek doesn't have it. [Perfect]

A phalanx of "senior government," "defense," and "military" officials and "diplomats" who, of course, will forever be incognito (or in Newsweek's imagination)

And by my reading, here's the kicker: Now that his article has come under heavy scrutiny with Real military investigations determining whether he's lying, Mr. Isikoff now decides to find a lawyer defending 13 Yemeni prisoners, who by the way, stand accused of terrorism and links to Al Qaeda (he didn't mention that, of course). And what do you think these innocent-till-proven-guilty terrorists said (as if Isikoff intends to give our SERVICEMEN that benefit of the doubt!).

That's right. They just happen to remember that there was an incident about a Koran in the toilet. Only Mr. Newsweek forgot to ask them about this BEFORE he printed his story about the Koran in the toilet. [The Cart comes AFTER the horse, buddy]

And just so we get the right idea, the rest is yet more agonizing over America's insensitivity towards the Koran. The biased tone is also a little much. ("cryptically"?, give me a break)

And by the way, if you don't already know: The author of this list of explanations/allegations is the editor of Mr. Isikoff's piece. I might have been willing to overlook this. But then he slithers out of responsibility with Anonymous sources to avoid explaining how Newsweek could have made these charges with so little to go on.

Well, draw your own conclusions...


"This is what the U.S. is doing," exclaimed Khan, "desecrating the Qur'an."

Revel said: "It looks like there may be a reason to buy the story."


Give me a break...
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 11:03 am
'Tis no surprise to me that the Blame-America-First members here will believe 'anonymous' sources provided by Newsweek.

Of course, these same BAFers are skeptical of the log showing a Muslim prisoner desecrating the Quran for his own perceived benefit.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 11:15 am
I find it quite possible that the incident never happened. Nevertheless, an interesting bit from the article:

Quote:
That does not quite explain, however, why the protest and rioting over Qur'an desecration spread throughout the Islamic region. After so many gruesome reports of torture and abuse at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere, the vehemence of feeling around this case came as something of a surprise.


True, indeed. As Setanta said, the radicals in Afghanistan would probably have found another (non-) story to stir things up and cause riots. But I find it most disturbing that it was this kind of alleged incident that started things.

On the other hand, it looks like this is limited to Afghanistan now. The reports about Pakistan and Indonesia basically say that the radical rhetoric has failed there. Gaza is a different story, of course.

However, the question remains: Are these guys going to launch a new jihad? Seems a bit weird at the moment.....
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 11:27 am
As I read back, it seems that quite a few of us continue/d to refer to this as an allegation.

I don't think anyone (I know I don't) wants to believe that it happened.
But then again, I posted, before the invasion, that I hoped that WoMD would be found in Iraq.

ehBeth wrote:
Not a good time (is there ever?) for this sort of allegation.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 11:43 am
Polarstar wrote:
Newsweek responds...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7857407/site/newsweek/

...with yet more anonymous sources and allegations.

"Internal FBI E-mails," which Newsweek doesn't provide. It's a good guess that we'll never know the source of those E-mails either.

A "SouthCom investigation that found that Gitmo interrogators had flushed a Qur'an down a toilet." According to the Military, they're still looking for those findings. So where is this investigative report? Newsweek doesn't have it. [Perfect]

A phalanx of "senior government," "defense," and "military" officials and "diplomats" who, of course, will forever be incognito (or in Newsweek's imagination)

And by my reading, here's the kicker: Now that his article has come under heavy scrutiny with Real military investigations determining whether he's lying, Mr. Isikoff now decides to find a lawyer defending 13 Yemeni prisoners, who by the way, stand accused of terrorism and links to Al Qaeda (he didn't mention that, of course). And what do you think these innocent-till-proven-guilty terrorists said (as if Isikoff intends to give our SERVICEMEN that benefit of the doubt!).

That's right. They just happen to remember that there was an incident about a Koran in the toilet. Only Mr. Newsweek forgot to ask them about this BEFORE he printed his story about the Koran in the toilet. [The Cart comes AFTER the horse, buddy]

And just so we get the right idea, the rest is yet more agonizing over America's insensitivity towards the Koran. The biased tone is also a little much. ("cryptically"?, give me a break)

And by the way, if you don't already know: The author of this list of explanations/allegations is the editor of Mr. Isikoff's piece. I might have been willing to overlook this. But then he slithers out of responsibility with Anonymous sources to avoid explaining how Newsweek could have made these charges with so little to go on.

Well, draw your own conclusions...


"This is what the U.S. is doing," exclaimed Khan, "desecrating the Qur'an."

Revel said: "It looks like there may be a reason to buy the story."


Give me a break...


Like I said, "looks there maybe a reason to buy the story."

If true; all that I said before still holds true.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 11:57 am
old europe wrote:
I find it quite possible that the incident never happened.


Me too. I still don't believe that the 'witches' in Europe in the 16th and 17th up to the 18th century have been so 'magic' either.

And since today Newsweek editor Mark Whitaker said in an editorial "we regret that we got any part of our story wrong and extend our sympathies to victims of the violence and to the US soldiers caught in its midst." - they don't find it possible (now), too.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 12:00 pm
from the new issue of Newsweek

<snip>

Quote:
While various released detainees have made allegations about Qur'an desecration, the Pentagon has, according to DiRita, found no credible evidence to support them.

How did NEWSWEEK get its facts wrong? And how did the story feed into serious international unrest?


<snip>

Quote:
More allegations, credible or not, are sure to come. Bader Zaman Bader, a 35-year-old former editor of a fundamentalist English-language magazine in Peshawar, was released from more than two years' lockup in Guantánamo seven months ago. Arrested by Pakistani security as a suspected Qaeda militant in November 2001, he was handed over to the U.S. military and held at a tent at the Kandahar airfield. One day, Bader claims, as the inmates' latrines were being emptied, a U.S. soldier threw in a Qur'an. After the inmates screamed and protested, a U.S. commander apologized. Bader says he still has nightmares about the incident.

Such stories may spark more trouble. Though decrepit and still run largely by warlords, Afghanistan was not considered by U.S. officials to be a candidate for serious anti-American riots. But Westerners, including those at NEWSWEEK, may underestimate how severely Muslims resent the American presence, especially when it in any way interferes with Islamic religious faith.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7857407/site/newsweek/
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 01:11 pm


So what we have here is pretty clear. Sloppy, irresponsible, partisan reporting - plain and simple. Isikoff and Barry, operating from a context not consistent with the report they were citing, went with the item, though it was not corroborated. One official approached for corroboration declined comment, the other "did not dispute" the desecration charge, and later, probably when questioned for the first time specificly concerning that bit, following the blow-up, said " ... he couldn't be certain about reading of the alleged Qur'an incident in the report we cited, and said it might have been in other investigative documents or drafts. " Pretty big leap from "did not dispute" to "confirmed" - unless, of course, you already have a head start and thats where you want to go anyway. I imagine - without evidence, admittedly, going on deduction alone, the initial exchange with the single source who did not dispute the allegation went something along the lines of:

Reporters: Here - would you look this over and let us know if there are any problems with it?

Source : Sure, hang on a sec ..... O.K. lemme see whatchya got.

Reporters: Here ya go.

<papers shuffling as draft is quickly glanced through>

Source: Looks pretty much OK to me, except you mis-spelled so-and-so's name here, and I believe he was there from {date} to {date}, not {date}"

Reporters: Great. Thats what we needed. We'll spell the name right, and correct the date - thanks for pointing that out.

Source: You're welcome. Now, if there's nothing else, I've got work to do.

Reporters: No, thats it. Thanks again, and sorry for the interuption.

Source: Fine, then. We still on for golf on Saturday?

Reporters: We certainly are.

Source: Great. See ya then. Nancy, what line was {so-and-so} on?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 01:14 pm
However, whether or not the report was a hack job (pacem, conservatives, i not only have not suggested it was true, but consistently pointed out that it was not proven), Pandora has opened the box, and our troops are very likely to suffer as a result.
0 Replies
 
 

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