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Muslims stage anti-US rallies over Koran abuse report

 
 
Reply Fri 13 May, 2005 06:25 pm
So now we have these anti-US rallies in, what, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Gaza, Indonesia.... anywhere else? How important are these recent events? How important are they in the US media? Any opinions?


Indonesia:

Quote:
Eyewitness: Anti-US anger in Indonesia

In Indonesia, a nation of almost 200 million Muslims, the radical fringe is getting increasingly angry with the US and its allies.

Anti-US demonstrations have been getting steadily bigger as the US prepares for possible military action over the 11 September attacks on Washington and New York.

In the latest one about 2,000 people gathered in the centre of Jakarta, right next to the British embassy.

One of the most radical groups, the Islamic Youth Movement, has warned it will call a jihad or holy war if Afghanistan is attacked, unless it has seen clear evidence of Osama Bin Laden's involvement in terrorism.

...


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/1577032.stm


Pakistan:

Quote:
Pakistan rally condemns US on desecration of Holy Quran

Students of religious seminaries on Thursday staged a demonstration in the northern Pakistani city of Peshawar to condemn desecration of the Holy Quran at the Guantanamo Bay prison by the US soldiers.

According to the local news agency News Network International, more than 100 students marched through various bazaars, which attracted a large number of traders and shopkeepers to join and eventually converted it into a rally at Soekaro square in the city center.

They were also holding placards inscribed with slogans, calling for the withdrawal of American troops from Afghanistan and Iraq.

...


http://english.people.com.cn/200505/13/eng20050513_184836.html


Gaza:

Quote:
Hamas activists in Gaza protest alleged U.S. desecration of Koran

Hundreds of Hamas activists staged a rare anti-U.S. protest Friday in response to the alleged desecration of Islam's holy book at a U.S. prison.

Shouting, "protect our holy book," about 1,500 protesters, some carrying green banners symbolizing Hamas, marched through the streets of the Jabalya refugee camp in the northern Gaza Strip. Some demonstrators burnt Israeli and U.S. flags.

"Muslims, your book was defiled by the aggressors," one organizer said over a loudspeaker attached to a car. "It is a disgrace to all Muslims who are watching silently."

The anti-U.S. protest was rare for Hamas, which is on the U.S. terror list. While many Palestinians are angry at the United States for its support of Israel, Palestinian leaders are wary of angering the superpower and have stressed that their conflict is only with Israel.

...


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/575824.html


Afghanistan:

Quote:
19 killed in anti-US protests in Afghanistan

KABUL, May 13 (Xinhuanet) -- 19 persons were killed and more than 50 injured in Afghanistan on Friday in new protests against American interrogators' desecration of Islamic holy book Quran, local police and residences said.

Three persons were killed, and 31 were injured in Baharak district of northeastern province of Badakhshan when the protestors conflicted with local police, provincial police chief Shah Jahan Noori told Xinhua.

About 1,500 students and civilians walked on the street to protest against US desecration on the Quran, and they had conflicts with the police as the procession passing the office of Non-governmental Organizations (NGO), Noori said.

"The police clashed with the protestors when they set fire on three NGO offices of Mission East, Gardian and Focus. Three persons died, 31 injured including two policemen," Noori added.

On the same day, 15 persons were killed when local police clashed with protestors in central province of Ghazni, about 100 km south of Kabul, residents here said.

"About 2,000 civilians attended the protest, and clashed with police. Both the policemen and some armed civilians shot each other. Till now, 15 killed including at least one policeman, and 22 injured including the privincial police chief." Voice of Ghaznawian, a local radio station reported Friday.

...


http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-05/14/content_2955606.htm
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old europe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2005 06:38 pm
Hm, what's Aljazeera's reaction.... Seems I've failed to mention Palestine, Egypt and Sudan:


Quote:
Anti-US protests over Quran report grow

Friday 13 May 2005, 22:42 Makka Time, 19:42 GMT

Thousands of Muslims have staged protests around the world over the alleged desecration of the Quran at the US detention facility at Guantanamo Bay.

Protests in Palestine, Egypt, Sudan, Pakistan and Indonesia followed demonstrations across much of Afghanistan in the past few days in which 14 people were killed and dozens injured after clashes with police.

Saudia Arabia, Iraq and Syria have registered displeasure at the alleged desecration.

The spreading anger comes after a report published by Newsweek magazine said that US interrogators at Guantanamo Bay desecrated copies of the Quran by leaving them in toilet cubicles and stuffing one down a lavatory.

...


http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/66C40F25-F870-4981-A722-83C87FE12134.htm
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2005 06:59 pm
It's interesting how the first story you posted is from 2001 and the rest are recent.

It was a report that hasn't been proven as of yet. But they do have a report of a prisoner who tried to flush his book down the shitter to create a back up in the system.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2005 07:00 pm
Re: Muslims stage anti-US rallies over Koran abuse report
old europe wrote:
So now we have these anti-US rallies in, what, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Gaza, Indonesia.... anywhere else? How important are these recent events? How important are they in the US media? Any opinions?


It is my opinion these events not only are overblown, but manufactured.

Quote:
Al Jazeera: Anti-US protests spread in Afghanistan


Friday 13 May 2005, 0:18 Makka Time, 21:18 GMT

Anti-US protests sparked by reports of desecration of the Quran by American interrogators at Guantanamo Bay have spread across Afghanistan, leaving three more people dead. ...

... The protests were sparked by a small report in Newsweek magazine last week stating that interrogators at the US military detention centre in Guantanamo Bay desecrated copies of the Quran by leaving them in toilet cubicles and even stuffing one down a lavatory to rattle Muslim prisoners ...

... The US has promised to investigate the desecration claim.

Rice statement

US Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice on Thursday called disrespect for the holy book "abhorrent" and promised to punish offenders.

Our military authorities are investigating these allegations fully," Rice said. "If they are proven true, we will take appropriate action. Respect for religious freedom for all individuals is one of the founding principles of the United States."

But the top US military officer said a review of interrogation logs has so far found no evidence to corroborate the explosive allegations.

"They cannot confirm yet that there was ever the case of the toilet incident except in one case, a log entry that they still have to confirm, where a detainee was reported by a guard to be ripping pages out of a Quran and putting them in a toilet to stop it up as a protest," said General Richard Myers, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.


I suspect what is happening in this regard is a product of the Madrasas - witness the videos showing the "rampaging crowds" to be composed chiefly of youths and bearded elders in traditional garb. I espect thorough investigation, as announced and now under way, will confirm no such incident took place. I do not expect the results of that investigation will placate some folks. There are those who will believe whatever they find convenient to believe.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2005 07:03 pm
I'm sorry. I've read about Indonesia, and this was from the Google News Search, marked as something like, 17 hours ago.... Or did I mess that up?

So, what do you think, Baldimo? I read that Rice said, yesterday, that "Disrespect for the holy Quran is not now, nor has it ever been, nor will it ever be, tolerated by the United States."

Is this enough to calm things down?
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2005 07:12 pm
Re: Muslims stage anti-US rallies over Koran abuse report
timberlandko wrote:
I suspect what is happening in this regard is a product of the Madrasas - witness the videos showing the "rampaging crowds" to be composed chiefly of youths and bearded elders in traditional garb. I espect thorough investigation, as announced and now under way, will confirm no such incident took place. I do not expect the results of that investigation will placate some folks. There are those who will believe whatever they find convenient to believe.


I've noticed this, Timber, and I totally agree with you... I think the news are, to put it mildly, overblown.

Nevertheless I was trying to find some video footage on these events, and in some regions the numbers seemed to be quite frightening. On the other hand, it's quite easy to picture a demonstration almost any way you want to... A matter of perspective, I'd say.

Nevertheless, I was astonished to read about the reaction this got in so many different countries.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2005 07:28 pm
Baldimo wrote:
It's interesting how the first story you posted is from 2001 and the rest are recent.


Embarrassed

Okay, this is all I've found on Indonesia:

Quote:
Jakarta, capital of the world's most populous Muslim nation Indonesia, saw a rally at a mosque by hundreds of people protesting against the alleged sacrilege. Students in the Indonesian city of Makassar on Sulawesi island took to the streets and searched hotels and the airport for any Americans, Detikcom news portal reported. No Americans were found.



So, it's not so big, or is it? 6,000 people in Afghanistan, 2,000 in Gaza... Something like 200 in Indonesia, and just 'more than 100' in Pakistan.

Still, the worst anti-US demonstrations since the fall of the Taliban in 2001 in Afghanistan, and "Saudia Arabia, Iraq and Syria have registered displeasure at the alleged desecration"...
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2005 07:37 pm
It would make a great flashpoint for those inclined to riot.

I just don't GET this attachment to "holy" books - but destroying books is very philistine.

Sounds like an easy tactic for people to try against Muslim prisoners.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2005 07:45 pm
Destroying books is nothing. People do it all the time. The inability to deal with a burnt book is cretinous.

To murder over it--or absolve those who do--is beneath contempt.

It remains shocking to see how maladaptive and mentally bankrupt those people are. They need a different planet.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2005 07:45 pm
There is a "piety" concieved of expediance ,Its a worldwide phenom. Fundamental sects are fond of using the technique to take the wind out of an opponents sails.
When Id worked in
Nigeria , Id seen the Koran cutout and used to hide small bongs bysome of my young workers
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2005 07:47 pm
Lying imams.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2005 07:59 pm
I wonder: is it only fundamental sects?

It's tempting to think that way (in fact, that was my first thought), but then you'd have to draw several conclusions:

- fundamental sects in Afghanistan are still capable of organizing protests of 6,000+ demonstrators, resulting in several deaths

- fundamental sects in Gaza can use an event like this to organize protests of several thousand demonstrators, in spite of being on the US terror list


And all this over a, well, book? Sometimes I think we fail to even remotely understand the kind of thinking behind those events....

Which, once again, shows how naive it would be to just try and transfer our culture to these countries. Or am I mistaken?
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2005 08:24 pm
Quote:
Myers Addresses Violence in Iraq, Afghanistan

By Donna Miles
American Forces Press Service


WASHINGTON, May 12, 2005 - The recent spike in violence in Iraq represents an attempt to discredit the new Iraqi government and cabinet, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff told Pentagon reporters here today.
Similarly, Air Force Gen. Richard B. Myers said, a May 11 incident in Jalalabad, Afghanistan -- in which at least three people died and scores were injured -- appears tied up to the political process there, including President Hamid Karzai's reconciliation program.

An after-action report by Army Lt. Gen. Karl Eikenberry, commander of Combined Forces Command Afghanistan, determined that the Jalalabad incident "was not necessarily the result of allegations about disrespect for the Koran" by guards at the detention center in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, Myers said.

A magazine article said U.S. interrogators in Guantanamo Bay had flushed a copy of the Korean down a toilet, and the Jalalabad violence was widely reported to have grown from anti-American protests sparked by the article. Army Gen. Bantz J. Craddock, commander of U.S. Southern Command, is in Guantanamo Bay "digging into this issue," Myers said, but no interrogation logs reviewed so far have confirmed such an incident.

One log entry, still unconfirmed, did note that a detainee had been found "ripping pages out of the Korean and putting them in the toilet to stop it up as a protest," Myers said.

Several other log entries showed that detainees had been "irritated" when a copy of the Koran had been moved, but no confirmation has been made that a copy was ever thrown into a toilet, Myers said.

Members of Joint Task Force Guantanamo "are sensitive to the religious beliefs and practices of the detainees in U.S. custody," noted a statement issued May 11 by U.S. Southern Command. The statement said Craddock directed an inquiry into the validity of information in the magazine article after it surfaced May 10.

Meanwhile, in Iraq the surge in terrorist attacks, many using vehicle-borne improvised explosive devices, generally involves "Iraqis blowing up Iraqis," Myers said.

"I don't know how (the insurgents) expect to curry favor with the Iraqi population when we have Iraqi-on-Iraqi violence," he said.

In response, Myers said, coalition forces are continuing their ongoing strategy, which he described as "to get the Iraqis in front of this process."

Polls show that Iraqis "are sick and tired of this violence" and are increasingly coming forward with intelligence about insurgent activity. "The intelligence is better and better every day from the Iraqis," Myers said.

The increase in violent attacks underscores the fact that the Iraqis and coalition are dealing with "a very violent insurgency" and "a thinking and adapting adversary," he said.

Their use of vehicle-borne improvised explosive devices, which Myers called "a very tough device to thwart," demonstrates their adaptability, he said.

Insurgencies typically last three to nine years, and countering the one in Iraq is a "tough fight," Myers said.

"In the end, it is going to have to be the Iraqis that win this," he said.

It appears to me this is nothing but a Jihadist propaganda offensive - a propaganda offensive based on and enabled by what appears to have been irresponsible reporting on the part of a US periodical. Newsweek should be called upon, officially, to either corroborate their report, or to publish retraction and apology. If, as I very much suspect will prove to be the case, there is no corroboration - if the purported incident turns out never to have happened, Newsweek also should be very sternly sanctioned - as in substantial monetary fine. That ain't real likely to happen, though.
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2005 08:59 pm
I'm still reading Guillaume and I remember a passage where he said that Muslims believe that the Qu'ran is actually in Heaven in a real form. That's why the attachment I think. Not being a Muslim I wouldn't have a clue, as I said, I read that a couple of days ago and then learned about these riots from radio reports.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2005 09:05 pm
OE--

I thought you asked a valid question--re 'transferring our culture'...

I think it is incorrect to imagine we are trying to export our culture.

Try to hang with me, because most non-conservatives glaze over when they hear these words--

But--freedom

and self-determination

are not uniquely American culture,

or Western culture.

Freedom

and self-determination

are for everyone.

When the freaky Arabs begin to get free news sources, and the vise grip of control and propaganda are broken, they will find their own way.

Modernity will make them more human.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2005 09:07 pm
An interesting - and quite plausible - wrinkle:

Quote:
Pakistan Times: Afghans holding Pakistan responsible for US actions

Daily Times Monitor

LAHORE: Commenting on the backlash and an attack on the Pakistani Consulate in Jalalabad in Afghanistan against the alleged desecration of the Holy Quran by US troops, Editor of the Daily Times Najam Sethi said the Afghans were holding Pakistan responsible for the US atrocities at Guantanamo Bay.

Speaking on an Indus Plus news channel programme on the telephone, Mr Sethi said the British press revealed such incidents of desecration last year but the backlash was not the same. Describing the reasons for the current scenario and the demonstrations following the desecration, Mr Sethi said, "The Taliban have intensified their attacks against the US troops in Afghanistan as their last resort to destabilize the Afghan government. The second reason for the anger against Pakistan is its role in the war against terrorism ...
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2005 09:13 pm
Interesting perspective on Iraq and Afghanistan, Timber.

Did you notice that your article sometimes speaks of a "Korean" instead of the Koran, Timber?

Whether or not the Koran story has been fabricated, I'm tempted to believe that the concern (or outrage, in some regions) appears to be genuine. And I'm not sure whether I should believe that President Karzai's reconciliation program has a lot to do with the thousands of demonstrators in Gaza. Or the, okay, hundreds in Pakistan or Indonesia.

I'm really concerned because so many countries are involved. It doesn't seem to be just a Iraq-Afghanistan issue...
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2005 09:20 pm
The problem with this is that it is entirely plausible and it's enraging Muslims. It's easy to believe that this happened, given that information has revealed that there is a range of interrogation tactics being used. It's extremely difficult to refute the allegation. I mean how do you prove that nothing happened? Very difficult problem indeed.

And I'm not alleging it did happen, just for the record. I prefer to see proof of an allegation.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2005 09:22 pm
The truth rarely crashes the party where politics or religion is concerned. For all that Americans may be innocent of what has been alleged against them, it is the perception of us in Muslim nations which will guide their actions. I haven't any doubt that the rabble rousers are having a field day.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2005 09:24 pm
What's the crime?

If it did happen?

Let's weigh burning a book to murdering our servicemen...

I'm just not feeling the Smoldering Koran.

They need to snap out of it.

What would your punishement be for Koran Burners...?

Bible burners...?
0 Replies
 
 

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