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Bolton and the UN

 
 
rayban1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 May, 2005 01:08 pm
ehbeth wrote:


Would you recommend the U.S. election/voting structure be reformed in the same way?

We already have varying representation from each state in accordance with
population.


ehbeth wrote:

And can I say this is one of the funniest, and most apt, if unintended, things I've read in days ...

rayban1 referring to the U.S.
rayban1 wrote:
a major contributor of funds to world problems

That was funny after you targeted my unintended implication. I can enjoy a laugh on me but it caused me to question your supposed desire for serious dialogue.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 May, 2005 07:52 pm
Back to Bolton
But back to Bolton, I don't think he is qualified to run anything. The charges that he tried to have analysts who disagreed with him fired has been confirmed. The ranting and ranging, confirmed. Throwing a keyboard at a flunky after chasing her around a hotel, no one denying that either. As for the UN, the US does not have a 51% controlling interest there, either in terms of money or relevancy. Bolton walks into the job with everyone there knowing that he's just assume they vanished and he sees no value in them. How is he going to put together a group of like minded people? Heck, even Powell isn't supporting him.

Voinivich put it well. If Bolton worked for a Fortune 500 company, he would be sidetracked or out of a job by now. You could find a dozen people tomorrow who could command the President's trust, who would forcefully push through the President's agenda at the UN and who would command more respect and authority than Bolton. Why is this guy going in front of Congress. Like him or not, that statement is hard to refute. Why not pick someone else?
0 Replies
 
Jack Webbs
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 May, 2005 09:05 pm
I believe all of us that have a career and have worked for any length of time have experienced people acting out of character. I know I have done so myself more than once.

John Bolton is simply a hard driving bureaucrat who just happens to be right most of the time and he makes no bones about it. I like leaders like that.

David Brooks made mention of some of the pettiness involved in charges against John Bolton in one of his columns in the New York Times last week. We can readily see they were exagerated or disproved entirely.

I got a chuckle out of Voinivich's comments concerning John Bolton's merits for employment. The only reason I would hire Voinivich or any other Representative or Senator for that matter, would be if I wanted to extort someone that was a member of the Beltway Community. They are a great source for dirt.

Other than that?

Unless there is political payback I believe John Bolton will be confirmed. He is more than qualified and deserves to be.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 11:07 am
Lash wrote:
Anyone know how we got paid back for the rebuilding of Europe?
We didn't.


a good question, and a good answer. but that leads to;

"anyone know how we're going to be paid back for iraq?"

i don't think we'll get a dime. from anyone.


Lash wrote:
The US-- responsible for the world. Period.


don't remember seeing that in the doi or the constitution. although there was a comment made by jefferson that the united states should "avoid foreign entanglements". i think that washington also made a similar remark.
0 Replies
 
Jack Webbs
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 11:37 am
Some people are being paid by other people for our commitment in Iraq. Don't ask me who but nothing gets done for free. I doubt we will every see any money repayment going into federal coffers on behalf of U.S. Citizens.

No, I don't recall any big celebrations being held in Washington over debt repayments by any foreign countries. Not even so much as an old mortgage burning get together.
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 12:07 pm
Democrats Move to Slow Action on Bolton


Quote:
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: May 14, 2005
Filed at 3:54 a.m. ET

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Senate consideration of John R. Bolton to be ambassador to the United Nations is unlikely before the end of May because of Democratic objections to an earlier vote, Majority Leader Bill Frist's spokesman says.

The White House, in pushing for confirmation, contends that Bolton is needed badly and promptly at the United Nations to work on reform of the institution.

But Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., said Democrats were holding up the nomination to compel the State Department to provide more information about Bolton, now an undersecretary of state.

Bob Stevenson, spokesman for Frist, R-Tenn., said it was ''an ominous signal,'' but that talks would be held with the Democrats to try to work out arrangements for bringing the nomination to the floor later this month.

At the State Department, spokesman Richard Boucher indicated the Democrats' demands for more Bolton documents would not be met. ''We think that we have provided everything that is relevant to this nomination,'' he said.

President Bush's nomination of Bolton was voted out of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee 10-8 on Thursday without an endorsement, and Democrats vowed to take their fight to the Senate floor.

Boxer told The Associated Press on Friday she would use procedural delays until Democrats receive the requested information.

''It is not fair to bring this nomination to the floor for debate and a vote until all the information has been delivered,'' she said.

Boxer said the Democrats want to know if Bolton sought the names of American officials whose communications were intercepted by U.S. intelligence, details on the private business activities of a Bolton assistant, Matthew Friedman; and the circumstances of a tough Bolton speech on Syria.

Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., who is leading the drive to scuttle the nomination, is backing Boxer's request for a hold, a legislative device to keep the Republican leadership from beginning debate, spokesman Norm Kurz said.

Asked to assess Bolton's chances of being confirmed, Boxer said, ''I think we can definitely beat John Bolton because, I think, the American people are going to weigh in and make their views known.''

She said she would lift the hold when the Democrats received the requested information. But, she said, ''all options are on the table, including a filibuster.''

Boucher said the State Department had cooperated ''very extensively'' with the committee, but that ''there are certain kinds of requests that we don't feel comfortable producing.''

The reason, he said, was that providing internal communications, e-mails and notes to Congress would have a ''chilling effect'' on exchanges among officials in the department.

And yet, Boucher said, ''we don't want to turn this into a showdown between branches of government.''

There are 55 Republican senators, 44 Democrats and 1 independent. One Republican, George Voinovich of Ohio, said Thursday he intends to vote against confirmation of Bolton.

Voinovich's reservations about Bolton -- he called him ''the poster child of what someone in the diplomatic corps should not be'' -- prompted the Foreign Relations committee not to endorse his nomination while sending it to the full Senate.

Still, the White House said it was confident Bolton would be confirmed.

''We believe there is a majority of the Senate that agrees with the president that John Bolton is exactly the person we need at the United Nations during this critical time of reform,'' press secretary Scott McClellan said.


Um, is the UN ours to reform or is it a world body that, I don't know, maybe requires diplomacy and input from others?

Go Boxer!

BTW, don't ya think Clinton would have made a great UN rep for the US? Or, Powell if he hadn't lied to them in 2003?
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 01:57 pm
squinney wrote:
Democrats Move to Slow Action on Bolton


The White House, in pushing for confirmation, contends that Bolton is needed badly and promptly at the United Nations to work on reform of the institution.


this "everything is a crisis" routine is way, way stale. we have made some pretty bad decisions in the last several years based on the bush administration's adroit use of the "urgency" portion of the salesman's handbook.
0 Replies
 
Jack Webbs
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 03:06 pm
I call it the automatic stone wall. Democrats and a few Republicans that owe payback are scratching the rough granite like cats resisting the burlap bag for the river.

It is done. John Bolton is in.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 09:06 pm
Funny, but so far I haven't read about the dems accusing Bolton of any sort of crimes or malfeasance; all I've read about them saying so far is that the guy's an a$$hole.

To my thinking, there's no such thing as being too much of an a$$hole for this particular job; the guy I'd want would be the biggest a$$hole I could possibly find.

My ideal candidate would be Simon Lagree, but I'd settle for Bolton.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 11:03 pm
Jack Webbs wrote:
It is done. John Bolton is in.


Say what?

A Republican-controlled committee just gave his name to the Senate as a whole-without a recommendation.

You would expect a Republican committee to return a Republican President's nominee to the Senate with a recommendation.

The fact that Bolton's nomination doesn't get the recommendation is a clear sign that his nomination is in deep trouble.
0 Replies
 
smog
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 11:10 pm
I got all excited, thinking that Michael Bolton was finally getting the kind of international power and respect that he so rightly deserves. How disappointed I am!
0 Replies
 
Jack Webbs
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 11:17 pm
This is one of those rare occasions when Republican Senators are going to have to stand and be counted. The importance of President Bush having his way here is far more important than the job to be filled.

John Bolton will be confirmed and it will be interesting to see what becomes of any Republican Senator foolish enough to not be on board when it happens.

The President has spoken.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 12:11 am
Jack Webbs wrote:
This is one of those rare occasions when Republican Senators are going to have to stand and be counted. The importance of President Bush having his way here is far more important than the job to be filled.

So you admit there is real doubt here. Otherwise, it would be a walkover, nobody would have to "stand and be counted".



Jack Webbs wrote:
John Bolton will be confirmed....

Excuse me, but the "stand up and be counted" concept is not consistent with the "it's in the bag" concept. To "stand up and be counted" means to take a stand regardless of the odds. That means that the outcome, by your own phrasing, is definitely in doubt.


Jack Webbs wrote:
The President has spoken.

And maybe it will do him some good, and maybe it won't. We'll have to see.

Bolton's nomination is in trouble, otherwise people wouldn't be talking about "stand up and be counted".
0 Replies
 
Jack Webbs
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 12:38 am
Split the hairs any way you like to, the nomination is in the bag. The votes need not be unanimous for the appointment.

I doubt any Republican Senator will defy the President. He would be cutting his own throat if he did.

I really like it when a member of Congress is forced to state his position. Especially when it will bring disfavor upon him. They hate to do it.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 10:33 am
Yes. By week's end (or this time next week), we'll all be referring to AMBASSADOR Bolton.

SmileSmileSmile

<Has a nice ring>
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 11:58 am
smog wrote:
I got all excited, thinking that Michael Bolton was finally getting the kind of international power and respect that he so rightly deserves. How disappointed I am!


hahahahahaha!!!!

and, if installed, john bolton will probably do at the u.n. what michael bolton does to a ballad...
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 12:04 pm
JustWonders wrote:
Yes. By week's end (or this time next week), we'll all be referring to AMBASSADOR Bolton.

SmileSmileSmile

<Has a nice ring>


And if that happens, how long before he is referred to as FORMER ambassador Bolton?

I want the 3 month slot in the pool.
0 Replies
 
tom otete
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 12:23 pm
John Bolton clearly is not the right man for the job. America needs a leader at the un who will not be a divisive figure that John clearly is. If he could not get along well with his colleagues at the state deparment how will he be expected to coax along countries that are anti-American. America needs to look for another alternative in exercising it's power that is not militaristic or does not ride roughshod over the interests of other countries
0 Replies
 
rayban1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 05:00 pm
tom otete wrote:
John Bolton clearly is not the right man for the job. America needs a leader at the un who will not be a divisive figure that John clearly is. If he could not get along well with his colleagues at the state deparment how will he be expected to coax along countries that are anti-American. America needs to look for another alternative in exercising it's power that is not militaristic or does not ride roughshod over the interests of other countries


Very naive thinking I suspect.......The UN in not.....I repeat NOT a club for nice guys. It is a snakes den and the biggest snake who hisses the loudest will garner the most attention and the most results......IMO!!!!!

Diplomacy at that level is a game of power and bluff........from what I can determine Bolton has many, many years of experience at that level and he knows how to use power and/or the velvet glove. So grow up people and stop parroting Bush's critics in the New York Times.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 05:36 pm
Jack Webbs wrote:
I doubt any Republican Senator will defy the President. He would be cutting his own throat if he did.


The folks who sent it to the floor without a recommendation are in trouble then?
0 Replies
 
 

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