Islamic Creationism

Friday was the day God created Adam. It is the day when God will resurect us, the day of Judgment. And the day he will appear to the people of the Heavens and GOD says that looking at GOD will be the best enjoyment. The heavens are levels and was beautifully described in the Quran. The first level will be like a ring in a desert compared to the secondwhich is gonna be like a ring in a desert compared to the 4th ...etc....

God says in the Quran that he created the Earth and the Heavens as Layers around a Sphere. The sphere is the Earth then GOd only knows how far is the first layer of the Heavens and if you try to picture that you would find that it is normal that the first layer is very smal compared to the second ...etc.
God says that Stars will be ornaments of the Heavens and that we didn't see anything yet. His creation is something that we will be surprised with and will only be offred to who pass the test and be patient. When god say to be patient because he knows that we have so many desires that would never be fullfilled by this tiny world and will be fullfilled by the Heavens eternally and in a continuous state of enjoyment plus he Almighty is saying that he also is gonna surprise us with more things that there are no wordly words to describe it as it is unfair to describe the HEavens by wordly words...... etc

I'm not going to respond to any of the last two pages of posts because they mostly consist of muslims making arguments agaisnt Christianity, and since I am not a Christian, and the Christian bible is not 'my bible,' I really don't care. I know Christianity is a bad religion, so what?

Let's get back on topic: Islamic creationism. I await muslim1's thoughts on the links I posted...

Merry and Steve. I am not what you described. I tried to share with you the truth. I showed you the truth. I proved you that the Bible was wrote not by God but by Man. I showed who wrote it and what kind of values they have. I asked you to read the Quran only. I have told you that the Bible is sometimes very close to what the Quran is telling but that the Quran is just so amazing. I tried to attract you to the truth. I have respected your point of vues but tried to answer your questions. I think that I have done my job as a brother and it is your choice to either consider what I have said or forget about it.

May God guids us all to the right path.

The Qu'ran was written by a man. Mohammad was a man ,was he not?

Agrote... You are not a monoteist so I don't even have to answer you because if you stay in that state then you are the worse of the Creation in the eyes of GOD.

Plus I have talked about that on an on and you are only a speaker of Satan trying to fire the fire between Muslims and Christians who share afterall the same values. Islam is trying to unify all the Monoteist religions and calling them to submit to God's laws. We had enough of suffering, and enough of corrution of God's Laws and that is the whole point of Islam. God sent it and is protecting it from corruption once again. The words are there, many who claim they are Muslims try to live something other than Islam to try to corrupt it but it is impossible to. I am a Muslim American and I am against any Muslim who kills with no reason. We Muslims condamned injustice because that is a Command from our Lord. And if we desagree about some of the things , it is only to help each other.

I invite you to wait for a fair trial on the day of Judgment, when you will be like : I never heard about Islam, Muhammad , Jesus, Moses, Abraham and that you were misguided but time goes fast and will go fast.

Good luck

NewSoul,

I agree with you completely that the Bible is full of nonsense, brutality, contradictions etc.

Where I disagree with you is that I see the same arguments applying to the texts of Islam. The Hadiths are quite an eye opener.

You being a newcomer to Islam, I ask you this. How do you find time to learn all these rules.

Islamic Laws

Some of them seem a bit excessive to me, like this one. Do you carry a compass around with you when you are in unfamiliar territory?

"60. * If a person sits in the toilet with the front part of his body or the back facing the Qibla, but turns the private parts away from that direction, it will not be enough. Similarly, when the front part of the body or the back does not face Qibla, as a precaution, he should not allow the private parts to face that direction."

Rules concerning use of the lavatory.

I'll bet that when you are out recruiting, the extent of rules are not mentioned.

Edit: repaired link to Islamic Laws

I am not trying to "fire the fire between Muslims and Christians." I haven't said anything at all in this thread to suggest that Muslims and Christians should be intolerant of each other or anything like that. Although I mentioned briefly my opinion of Christianity, all I have been tryign to do in this thread is attack Islam. If anything, I am firing the fire at Islam.

If I am the "worse in the creation in the eyes of GOD," GOD can tell me himself. Don't be so arrogant as to try and tell me that God loves you and not me when you have no idea.

I believe, incidentally, that God does not exist, or that if he does exist he doesn't love anyone.

No Muslim would tell you that God loves him or something like that. No Muslim is sure if he/she is going to Heaven and that is what makes him/her struggling on him/her self in all actions taken. When a Muslim does something God is immediately remembered as if he is standing in front of you watching what you gonna do. When God gives you hardship he is waiting on you to be strong and patient. A strong person is not the one that has Muscles or can kick butts but who is in control of the Anger and Desires and not be driven by his/her anger and desires. And that is what this life is all about. God has two Angels following each one of us , one records the bad deeds and one the good deeds and in the day of judgment each one of us will be handed a Book of life.

God is Mercyful but only with whom are strong ( not physically) and who apply all the Great values of God on their lives. It is not out of weakness to just say just good words and when you are angry , to walk away for example.

Now if you attack Islam, know that you have no references to use and if I was you I ll exile myself until death comes because you have no dreams, you have no goal in life and basically you are not alive because you ignore the fact that you are a Creation, that breaths because of the oxygene that was provided for you, that you earth from the fruit of the Earth, that you drink from the water sent to you from the sky, that you are alive because the temperature is set for you so you don't freeze and you don't burn. Do you even know who you are and what are you doing in this world? If I was like you I would feel that I am not part of Life and unuseful for anything.

I respect my Christian and Jewish friends because they have some character at least and they have a past but you, what don't you just isolate yourself physically because you are isolating yourself from the Majority. Do you know better than the Majority, or you think you are Smarter ?

Well if we must have religion I'm all for a liberal/progressive type

It worries me that you have respect only for religious people. You respect people as long as they believe what you believe: that there is a loving God who created the earth. But those of us who have perfectly good reasons for believing otherwise, you're just not prepared to take seriously. You assume that without religion, people cannot be good and moral and live productive lives, but that's just not true. Go ahead and follow your religion, believe what you believe, but can't you a be a little more open-minded about other people's beliefs?

Andrew

You are right, I shouldn't bother. But it is possible to be too tolerant. I've had enough of these crazies, and when one of them tells me evolution did not take place because their holy book says the world is only 6000 years old, I'm going to tell them flatly that their holy book is wrong, and I don't care any longer about trampling on religious sensitivities. You might say well let them stew in their own juice. But they've been allowed to do that for too long, and the result is religiously inspired terrorism, which no-one should tolerate. Its time to take on these crazies and destroy their stupid and dangerous ideas.

NewSoul

Was Mohammed a paedophile or not?

I find myself in a difficult position here. Steve you asked if the Prophet was a paedophile or not. I think that's not a fair question. The reason I think that is not just because it's a loaded question but because it's not well defined.

What is a "paedophile"? Is it someone who has sex with a person who is under the age of consent? If so then that person is not necesarily a paedophile. The age of consent has varied through history and it varies now from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. It follows from that that the concept of "paedophile" is itself socially determined.

goodfielder

Yes of course the question was loaded. Just as my question about the mutilation of children's genitalia was loaded...I'm not really interested in the answer, I just want people to think and question the relevance of medieval ideas in today's world.

But when I took a cursory look about Aisha (nine) marrying Mohammed (53) I find there's a whole website devoted to the question

http://www.muslimhope.com/AishaNine.htm

Haven't they got something better to do?

But they won't will they? However the rest of us will.

We're fighting, not Islamo-Fascists as the right wing demagogues would have it, we're fighting mediaevalism. And it's not just coming from Islam. Christian fundamentalists would return us to pre-Enlightenment times.

I sometimes wonder if the same struggle is going on inside Islam at the moment. It seems to me that liberalism in Islam - an historical tenet of its thinking - has been destroyed and liberal thinkers are being persecuted by the mediaevalists. Our response? Mediaevalism of our own. Fundamental Christians abound and are trying to control the US government - heck they could even be in control right now.

It seems unbelievable now that while Christian Europe was in the Dark Ages it was Islam that kept the torch of knowledge alight. Mediaeval Christianity killed independent thought, religious dogma was to drive every aspect of human existence. And that dark idea clashed with Islam.

Now we have elements of both Christianity and Islam trying to return us to the Dark Ages.

I agree with virtually all of that goodfielder. Certainly I think the wacky Christians are just as dangerous as anything Islam can produce. But I hope my response to "medievalism" is not more medievalism but the application of modern thought.

It seems to me that a good dose of rationalism will do for muddled religious thinking as bleach does for germs, but that we have been reluctant to apply it in the past out of respect for other peoples deeply held religious beliefs. We can no longer afford to be so sparing.

Well said. And I wonder if a good dose of rationalism isn't a good thing for any religion? I mean it clears out the cobwebs a bit don't you think?

And how did people live their lives before organised religion? Think about it.

There've been people around to shake the chicken bones for as long as there have been people stupid enough to feed them the chicken for doing so.

I leave it to readers to work out which bits are my responses



Now if you attack Islam, know that you have no references to use

http://www.secularislam.org/Default.htm

and if I was you I ll exile myself until death comes because you have no dreams,

you cant possibly know this

you have no goal in life

or this

and basically you are not alive

just as alive as you

because you ignore the fact that you are a Creation, that breaths because of the oxygene that was provided for you,

wrong, lungs and the respiratory system evolved to take advantage of atmospheric oxygen, not the other way round.


that you earth from the fruit of the Earth,

if you mean eat of the fruit of the earth, well thats true. I dont only eat fruit, and a great deal of it wouldn't be around without the application of modern agricultural techniques and artifical fertiliser.


that you drink from the water sent to you from the sky,

mine comes out of a tap actually, but I know what you mean. Or at least I assume you refer to the cometary origin of terrestial water?


that you are alive because the temperature is set for you so you don't freeze and you don't burn.

Again the wrong way round. We have evolved and adapted to earth's temperature range. How do you explain global warming? Is Allah turning the thermostat up just for fun?

Do you even know who you are

yes

and what are you doing in this world?

how much detail do you want?

If I was like you I would feel that I am not part of Life and unuseful for anything.

well you're not; so you can go on living your magnificently fulfilling religious life without me

I respect my Christian and Jewish friends because they have some character at least

very generous of you

and they have a past but you, what don't you just isolate yourself physically because you are isolating yourself from the Majority.

you mean I haven't been brainwashed like you?

Do you know better than the Majority, or you think you are Smarter ?

Well as it happens I do have above average intelligence (God given, I am the first to admit) so I suppose the answer in strict numeric terms is yes.