If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

Frank Apisa wrote:

Intrepid wrote:
Frank,
Do you really think that believing will bring words of comfort or whatever from a known mythical being? Greek mythology has nice stories but they are not real. :-)

Yeah...I do.

Even though you suppose Zeus to be a "known mythical being"....doesn't mean some people cannot delude themselves into thinking it is not mythical.

Look....you folks think the god of the Bible is loving, kind, and compassionate.

If people can delude themselves to that extent...why on earth would you suppose they could not delude themselves about the existence of Zeus?

You are right, Frank. People can also delude themselves into thinking that abortion is not murder. At least, that is my guess.

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Neo,
I am interested in how you equate Zeus with Satan?

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Momma Angel wrote:

Neo,

I do understand what you are saying, but, if religion was followed as it was meant to be then there wouldn't be the problem. Everything goes right back to man's misinterpretation and passing that along to others, etc., and from there it gets more and more distorted.

Just as it is not the justice system that is the root of the problem, it's what man has done with the justice system, how man has interpreted it.

Personally, I think we take all the straw men, throw them in a pile, and toss a match to it!

But the problem goes much deeper, MA.

Apparently NONE of the people "misinterpreting" ever think they are misinterpreting.

Here is a very important...and salient...fer instance.

You claim that the god of the Bible is kind, compassionate, and loving of all humankind.

I suggest that you are completely wrong on that...and that any kind of reasonable reading of the Bible comes up with a god that is almost a comic book rendition of what a god should not be. The god is jealous, quick-to-anger slow-to-forgive, vengeful, vindictive, retributive, petty, tyrannical, pschopathic, murderous, and barbaric.

The character of the god is right there for all to see. The words are right there in black and white.

The god is never kind or compassionate. As for loving...I guess there could be (if you stretch things considerably)...some love shown for the Hebrew people...but as far as the rest of the world is concerned, the only love the god expresses is when he decides if vanquished enemies all be slaughtered...or if only the men be slaughtered...and the women and children put into slavery for the rest of their lives.

Religion simply doesn't work...because the religious are purposefully blind and in denial.

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Frank: If the God of the Bible is "jealous, quick-to-anger slow-to-forgive, vengeful, vindictive, retributive, petty, tyrannical, pschopathic, murderous, and barbaric" as you insist, doesn't it make sense to get on His good side?

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Intrepid wrote:

[You are right, Frank. People can also delude themselves into thinking that abortion is not murder. At least, that is my guess.

People can delude themselves into thinking that abortion IS MURDER...not the other way around.

Abortion IS NOT murder....

...and I can prove that.

In fact, I already have.

You simply do not want to acknowledge it!

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Frank,

I see you have added a few more adjectives to your descriptive interpretation of the God of the Bible.

My point is, the ills of this world are not caused by God, they are caused by man and man's free will.

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Intrepid,

I guess maybe you should have said "man can take God's view of abortion and since man's law say's it's legal, then one can delude themself into believing it's not murder"?

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Intrepid wrote:

Neo,
I am interested in how you equate Zeus with Satan?

Zeus was the supreme god presiding over the lesser gods of the Greek pantheon. Collectively, they were said to have, among other things, seduced many earthly women and to have fathered many illegitimate children. The children produced were superior to normal humans.

Do you see the parallel between the personalities of Zeus and his cohorts and the conditions on earth in Noah's day?

Sons of the true god forsaking their positions.
Taking earthly women as wives.
Bearing children called nephelim (fellers).

Go through the Greek mythology and you will find many interesting parallels.

In fact, starting with religions and religious ideas originating in Babylon, you will find an intriguing web of lies reaching all the way to our times.

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Momma Angel wrote:

Frank,

I see you have added a few more adjectives to your descriptive interpretation of the God of the Bible.

My point is, the ills of this world are not caused by God, they are caused by man and man's free will.

Don't make the mistake of condemning free will. It is a precious gift that separates us from animals and machines.

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Neo,

Oh, believe me, I am not condemning free will! It is, indeed, a precious gift. It is just often a gift misused.

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Ticomaya wrote:

Frank: If the God of the Bible is "jealous, quick-to-anger slow-to-forgive, vengeful, vindictive, retributive, petty, tyrannical, pschopathic, murderous, and barbaric" as you insist, doesn't it make sense to get on His good side?

Not if the god of the Bible does not exist...and my guess is, that god does not exist.

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Tico,

Now, that sounds like logical reasoning to me! Laughing

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Tico,

Now, that sounds like logical reasoning to me! Laughing

And Frank, what if your guess is incorrect?

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Frank Apisa wrote:

Ticomaya wrote:
Frank: If the God of the Bible is "jealous, quick-to-anger slow-to-forgive, vengeful, vindictive, retributive, petty, tyrannical, pschopathic, murderous, and barbaric" as you insist, doesn't it make sense to get on His good side?

Not if the god of the Bible does not exist...and my guess is, that god does not exist.

Frank; Do you believe you are guessing correctly?

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Frank Apisa wrote:

Ticomaya wrote:
Frank: If the God of the Bible is "jealous, quick-to-anger slow-to-forgive, vengeful, vindictive, retributive, petty, tyrannical, pschopathic, murderous, and barbaric" as you insist, doesn't it make sense to get on His good side?

Not if the god of the Bible does not exist...and my guess is, that god does not exist.

Good luck.

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Ticomaya wrote:

Momma Angel wrote:
So Dys,

My believing in God makes me evil?

You're not evil ... it's your belief in God that is evil .... right, dys?

Um well, believeing is one thing but to paraphrase some book or other it's the works not the words that condemn you. As an example, when you or anyone for that matter ranks "supernatural" law above man's law we are bound to encounter evil. If you actually care to think about it, we as a society conceive law in an atttempt to stabilize and benefit the society of mankind we live in but when we defer that body of law to a "supernatural" law-giver we are then creating evil. Examples would include US Protestant Manifest Destiny as well as muslim suicide bombers along with a long history of genocide and barbarism generated by religion superceding human rights. Tico, if you really don't want my opinion and can only offer your sarcastic barbs, I shall refrain from attempting to answer your questions honestly which is what I have been attempting to do here. Shall we continue honestly or shall we continue your route?

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neologist wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
Frank: If the God of the Bible is "jealous, quick-to-anger slow-to-forgive, vengeful, vindictive, retributive, petty, tyrannical, pschopathic, murderous, and barbaric" as you insist, doesn't it make sense to get on His good side?

Not if the god of the Bible does not exist...and my guess is, that god does not exist.
Frank; Do you believe you are guessing correctly?

No...I am guessing I am correct.

And if I am wrong in that guess...if the god actually does exist....the fact that I am wrong about it existing does not make me wrong that the god is jealous, quick-to-anger slow-to-forgive, vengeful, vindictive, retributive, petty, tyrannical, pschopathic, murderous, and barbaric."

In any case, whether it exists or not...I will not kiss its ass...and I will call its attention to the fact that it is all the things I mentioned.

If you folks want to live your life in fear of an idiotic god like that...pretending it is loving, kind, compassionate and the like...

...go for it.

But I consider you a bunch of silly sheep.

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Now Dys,

I have to jump in here. I find Tico's sarcastic barbs a lot more gentle than I do some of the accusations that have been flying around in here. I, actually posted the same sort of thing to Frank. Why he had to be so nasty when all I was trying to do was answer him as honestly as I could.

Now, why is that?

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Momma Angel wrote:

Now Dys,

I have to jump in here. I find Tico's sarcastic barbs a lot more gentle than I do some of the accusations that have been flying around in here. I, actually posted the same sort of thing to Frank. Why he had to be so nasty when all I was trying to do was answer him as honestly as I could.

Now, why is that?

My guess MA is that Tico does not like to see in print what I write even though he asked for my explantion and having no rebuttal to offer resorts to sarcastic barbs. What do you think? Now honestly I don't mind going either way with this but I would like to know which is prefered, honest commentary or sarcastic barbs. In addition MA, I find death by injection to be a lot more gentle than beheading but in all actuality I am only commenting on this religious stuff, not looking for a method of self extermination. Forums like this are great for sharing various ideas and opinions, don't you think so MA or does everyone here have to agree with you and Tico?

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Yes, Frank. We know you consider us poor deluded sheep. Baa! Baa!

You are guessing your guess is correct?

Dys,

I have no problem with the sharing of ideas and differences. I am learning a lot. It just seems that you are stating the exact things I stated to Frank about sarcasm, etc. I just wanted to know why it seems to be okay for you guys to do it but not those that disagree with you?

I haven't seen Tico use foul language or call anyone an idiot or a moron or a joke. If I did see it, you can bet I'd call him on it, just as I hope he would call me on it if I did it.

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If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

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