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If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 10 Jun, 2005 04:24 pm
xingu wrote:
NDE is not speculation. It has happened to far to many people for it to be a guess.


Theists use that same argument, xingu.

It doesn't wash.

There is absolutely nothing reliable to be learned about death by coming close to death.

I defy any of these people who claim to have experienced this NDE thing to show that they were not merely experiencing an hallucination.

And I hope you recognize that because the experiences have similar components...does not validate them.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Fri 10 Jun, 2005 04:25 pm
Ask yourself this;

1. If you were God would you send someone to hell because they didn't believe in you?

2. If you had the power of God would you punish someone (send them to hell) because of their religious or non-religious beliefs?

3. Is faith more important than deed?

4. Is rational thought more important than blind faith?
0 Replies
 
brahmin
 
  1  
Fri 10 Jun, 2005 04:33 pm
3. Is faith more important than deed? - NO

4. Is rational thought more important than blind faith? - YES
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Fri 10 Jun, 2005 04:34 pm
As I have said before; if NDE was nothing more than a trip through a tunnel and seeing a light I would agree with you.

Explain OBE.

http://www.near-death-experiences.info/near-death.html
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Fri 10 Jun, 2005 04:36 pm
brahim

That leaves questions 1 and 2.
0 Replies
 
brahmin
 
  1  
Fri 10 Jun, 2005 05:11 pm
1. If you were God would you send someone to hell because they didn't believe in you?

IF I WAS GOD I COULDN'T AND WOULDNT CARE LESS WHO IS BELIEVING IN ME OR NOT - WHETHER OR NOT I AM A GOD IS NOT A FUNTION OF WHETHER THEY BELIEVE IN ME OR NOT (or is it Wink.. think think). NO QUASTION OF SENDING ANYONE ANYWHERE.


2. If you had the power of God would you punish someone (send them to hell) because of their religious or non-religious beliefs?

POWER OF GOD, AS DIFFERENT FROM ME BEING ONE, AND I WOULDNT DO ANYTHING COS WHATS CORRECT IN ONE RELIGION IS WRONG IN ANOTHER AND CONVERSELY TOO - SO HE IS MOST LIKELY DOING NOTHING WRONG IN SOME OR THE OTHER RELIGION, UNLESS HE IS KILLING OR HUMAN SACRIFICING. SO, NO AGAIN.


sorry for caps... just to make a difference in script.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 10 Jun, 2005 05:23 pm
xingu wrote:
As I have said before; if NDE was nothing more than a trip through a tunnel and seeing a light I would agree with you.

Explain OBE.

http://www.near-death-experiences.info/near-death.html
There is unconsciousness....and then there is unconsciousness.

Who knows what the mind is capable of?

And there is possible delusion.

I dislike anecdotal stuff for that reason.

In any case, I repeat: "There is absolutely nothing reliable to be learned about death by coming close to death.
0 Replies
 
brahmin
 
  1  
Fri 10 Jun, 2005 05:53 pm
er will someone pls answer the 2 questions i asked.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Fri 10 Jun, 2005 10:02 pm
xingu wrote:
Ask yourself this;

1. If you were God would you send someone to hell because they didn't believe in you?

2. If you had the power of God would you punish someone (send them to hell) because of their religious or non-religious beliefs?

3. Is faith more important than deed?

4. Is rational thought more important than blind faith?
Exactly the same line of reasoning I have presented to you, xing.
brahmin wrote:
er will someone pls answer the 2 questions i asked.

The soul does not live after death. When you're dead, you're dead.
Therefore, there is no barbecue (or conscious thought) in hell.
So the loving God cannot be accused of sending anyone there.
The promise of everlasting life on earth is still available to Adam's descendants, made possible by Jesus' propitiatory sacrifice, taking the place of Adam.
It may be hard to believe God actually loves you, especially after listening to my educated co posters, but it is true.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Fri 10 Jun, 2005 10:04 pm
Define OBE. Or is it Wan Kenobi's first name?
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Fri 10 Jun, 2005 10:18 pm
Out of Body Experience
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Fri 10 Jun, 2005 10:26 pm
Has anyone ever used the OBE to steal my password?
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Fri 10 Jun, 2005 10:58 pm
You better hope not.
0 Replies
 
brahmin
 
  1  
Sat 11 Jun, 2005 04:28 am
neologist wrote:

The soul does not live after death. When you're dead, you're dead.
Therefore, there is no barbecue (or conscious thought) in hell.
So the loving God cannot be accused of sending anyone there.

The promise of everlasting life on earth is still available to Adam's descendants, made possible by Jesus' propitiatory sacrifice, taking the place of Adam.
It may be hard to believe God actually loves you, especially after listening to my educated co posters, but it is true.



i still dont see how it proves that


1) he died to forgive a person he never knew for sins he (i) never committed.
2) there is indeed a hell


as for the soul, how do you prove that it dont live after the body dies ?


and those who believe that they are the descendents of adam, instead of the monkeys as darwin proved, have ever lasting life on earth ?? not many i know, who've had that !!
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 11 Jun, 2005 04:33 am
neologist wrote:
The soul does not live after death. When you're dead, you're dead.


How do you know that?


Quote:
Therefore, there is no barbecue (or conscious thought) in hell.


How do you know that?


Quote:
So the loving God cannot be accused of sending anyone there.
The promise of everlasting life on earth is still available to Adam's descendants, made possible by Jesus' propitiatory sacrifice, taking the place of Adam.
It may be hard to believe God actually loves you, especially after listening to my educated co posters, but it is true.


How do you know any of this stuff?

Or are you just guessing?
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Sat 11 Jun, 2005 09:33 am
Frank Apisa wrote:
neologist wrote:
The soul does not live after death. When you're dead, you're dead.


How do you know that?


Quote:
Therefore, there is no barbecue (or conscious thought) in hell.


How do you know that?


Quote:
So the loving God cannot be accused of sending anyone there.
The promise of everlasting life on earth is still available to Adam's descendants, made possible by Jesus' propitiatory sacrifice, taking the place of Adam.
It may be hard to believe God actually loves you, especially after listening to my educated co posters, but it is true.


How do you know any of this stuff?

Or are you just guessing?
I'm so sorry, Frank. I'd have to use the bible to prove my point, and I'd hate to offend you. But you don't really believe you have an immortal soul, do you? Laughing
0 Replies
 
brahmin
 
  1  
Sat 11 Jun, 2005 11:43 am
which still leaves my question unanswered...
0 Replies
 
NoNe
 
  1  
Sat 11 Jun, 2005 01:51 pm
blueveinedthrobber wrote:
because some people, like liberal democrats, filthy queers, and anti war hippies won't accept Jesus as their personal savior.

Can I make some assumptions?
-U r Republican;
-U Do not like "antiwar Hippies", logically, u r "for-war"
And from those statement, can I ask u couple questions?
What does War has to do With Jesus and not accepting him?
The second question is WHAT WAR are u talking about?
How do u think, what does Jesus thinks about Bush? Very Happy
0 Replies
 
booman2
 
  1  
Sat 11 Jun, 2005 02:58 pm
No body asked me but this looks like a good place to say this again:
.....The Christians, Jews, and Muslims, make the Crips, and Bloods look like high school debating teams.
0 Replies
 
thunder runner32
 
  1  
Sat 11 Jun, 2005 05:03 pm
Quote:
Theists use that same argument, xingu.

It doesn't wash.

There is absolutely nothing reliable to be learned about death by coming close to death.

I defy any of these people who claim to have experienced this NDE thing to show that they were not merely experiencing an hallucination.

And I hope you recognize that because the experiences have similar components...does not validate them.


Frank, how do you know that there is nothing to be learned from nde? Have you ever had one? You're not being impartial if you haven't...
0 Replies
 
 

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