If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

You've got a point there, thunder. All will have an opportunity in the resurrection.

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Setanta -- Maybe the problem is that god is dog spelled backwards.

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If god gives the gift of life, would he be low enough and crass enough to demand we be his slaves? Well, lots of people have demanded service from others, some of it demeaning to the servers.

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au1929 wrote:

headofthefield wrote

Quote:
Hell itself is intended for those who don't except Jesus Christ as their savior

Here we go again another one spouting some more intolerant religious horse crap.

First you sound more intolorable than I. It is my belief and I don't intend on forcing it on anyone. You should consider the idea that I was just stating what I believe to be the answer. If you want to talk about intolerant opinions then you should go else where because I have a belief and why should I flex my belief because you don't agree with it?

Setanta,
Thanks for the spelling lesson, but I don't want to waste my time explaining a mispelling when clearly there is more important things to discuse.

Sorry to both for the delay in response.

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plainoldme wrote:

If god gives the gift of life, would he be low enough and crass enough to demand we be his slaves? Well, lots of people have demanded service from others, some of it demeaning to the servers.

He doesn't demand that we be his slaves, if that was the case, why would he give us free will in the first place? He does however, demand that we follow the moral guidelines he has set for us, which consequently provide for a more 'friction-free' life.

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plainoldme wrote:

If god gives the gift of life, would he be low enough and crass enough to demand we be his slaves? Well, lots of people have demanded service from others, some of it demeaning to the servers.

I think you have a point there, plain. The issue is not servitude; God could very well have made us robots. The issue is whether we would voluntarily submit to his moral standards. That is the meaning of the single test of the tree.

There is more to the story, of course.

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your comments ladies and gentlemen (and a2kers) would be appreciated here

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1359547#1359547

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That's where we are different from animals, we make choices about morality, and they just eat all day...man, they're lucky.

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One of the problems with saying that god does demand we follow the moral guidelines he has set for us is -- as demonstrated above -- some of those moral guidelines seem to include killing others.

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plainoldme wrote:

One of the problems with saying that god does demand we follow the moral guidelines he has set for us is -- as demonstrated above -- some of those moral guidelines seem to include killing others.

There would have been no (human) death (no killing) were it not brought into the world through Adam's sin.

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Neologist,
.....You stated that as if because its in the bible it's beyond reproach.

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The story of Adam and Eve is a myth. It never happened. It's human imagaination trying to answer questions. All cultures do that.

To speak of eternal life with reference to Adam and Eve is silly. One may as well believe in a flat earth.

The only eternal life is the life of the soul. That has nothing to do with Jewish mythology and their creation stories.

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Although there is some wise and truthful stuff in the bible. It's like a gold mine really. The mine itself represents all the BS you have to go through to get to the treasure.

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True, there is a lot of good stuff in the Bible but we must seperate fact from fiction.

Dispite what the Bible says the earth is not flat.

"Likewise, in describing the temptation of Jesus by Satan, Matthew 4:8 says, "Once again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world [cosmos] in their glory." Obviously, this would be possible only if the earth were flat. The same is true of Revelation 1:7: "Behold, he is coming with the clouds! Every eye shall see him..."

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm

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booman2 wrote:

Neologist,
.....You stated that as if because its in the bible it's beyond reproach.

It is in the bible. Of that I can assure you. We are warned at 1 Thessalonians 5;21 to "make sure of all things . . ."

I hope nobody accepts what I say based on my good looks. Laughing

However, it's been a long time since I fell out of the turnip truck and I've learned enough to point someone in the right general direction.

Xingu would have you believe the bible says the earth is flat. In fact the bible states that the earth is round and 'suspended on nothing', surely enough information for a common man to have refuted Aquinas' doctrine of an earth centered solar system. Unfortunately, the clergy prevented the common man from learning the truth.

It still happens today when religious charlatans and pharisaical philosophers seduce mankind with their empty reasonings. The bible should stand alone as a verifiable testament to truth. I believe it can pass that test when subjected to honest scrutiny.

I know there appears to be a lot to overcome. I'll just chip away at it a little at a time.

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Quote please.

Then explain the contradictions.

Does God disagree with himself?

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Job 26:7 "He is stretching out the north over the empty place, Hanging the earth upon nothing."

Isaiah 40:22 "There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth . . ."

Can you think of any vantage point whereby one can envision all the kingdoms of the world? I can. The point to remember here is that Satan could not have offered these things if they were not under his control. Jesus didn't deny that they were. Instead he told Satan that it was God to whom worship should be directed (not himself as the trinitarians would have us believe)

As far as Jesus coming on the clouds, we should read the surrounding verses: "30 And then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity.

32 "Now learn from the fig tree as an illustration this point: Just as soon as its young branch grows tender and it puts forth leaves, YOU know that summer is near. 33 Likewise also YOU, when YOU see all these things, know that he is near at the doors . . .: (Matthew 24; 30-33)

It would probably be a good idea to know what signs Jesus was referring to. But, at any rate, he said they would pretty much speak for themselves.

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xingu wrote:

"Likewise, in describing the temptation of Jesus by Satan, Matthew 4:8 says, "Once again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world [cosmos] in their glory." Obviously, this would be possible only if the earth were flat. The same is true of Revelation 1:7: "Behold, he is coming with the clouds! Every eye shall see him..."

This in no way means that the Earth is flat, if you tried to look at it that way, you would still run into problems, the human eye could not see that far. Obviously Satan showed him in a representative manner.

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thunder_runner32 wrote:

xingu wrote:
"Likewise, in describing the temptation of Jesus by Satan, Matthew 4:8 says, "Once again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world [cosmos] in their glory." Obviously, this would be possible only if the earth were flat. The same is true of Revelation 1:7: "Behold, he is coming with the clouds! Every eye shall see him..."

This in no way means that the Earth is flat, if you tried to look at it that way, you would still run into problems, the human eye could not see that far. Obviously Satan showed him in a representative manner.

Yeah, what you said.

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neologist wrote:

Isaiah 40:22 "There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth . . ."

Can you think of any vantage point whereby one can envision all the kingdoms of the world? I can. The point to remember here is that Satan could not have offered these things if they were not under his control. Jesus didn't deny that they were. Instead he told Satan that it was God to whom worship should be directed (not himself as the trinitarians would have us believe)

A circle is a two dimensional figure, one that would be used to describe the appearance of the horizon as viewed from a mountain top by someone thinking the earth was flat. It in no way describes the spherical earth.

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If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

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