80
   

If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

 
 
NealNealNeal
 
  -1  
Tue 16 Nov, 2021 10:56 am
@theMadOne,
theMadOne wrote:

In Hebrew and Greek "hell" equals the Grave.
Religion warps it into something DISGUSTING!

It was Jesus Who spoke about hell in graphic terms.
NealNealNeal
 
  0  
Tue 16 Nov, 2021 11:12 am
@theMadOne,
theMadOne wrote:

What else would you have me CALL them- they aren't CHRISTIAN, they don't listen to his words!

Many of us listen. It is simply hard to apply the words of Jesus. In fact it is impossible for us to do so. That is why we need to be "filled with the Holy Spirit" as much as we can. And this relies on the "sanctification process" where we gradually become more and more like Jesus in character.
Please note that Christians are told to glorify God. Sometimes this will displease people, which is fine.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Tue 16 Nov, 2021 11:40 am
@NealNealNeal,
NealNealNeal wrote:
Leadfoot wrote:

Frank reminds me of the seed that fell on the rock. Sprouted but no roots and withered in the sun.


Yes. It must have been exciting to experience Mass at the Vatican. However, he did not experience the joy of a relationship with God. Or, he was "disappointed with God" in some way.
God knows Frank. Let them work it out between themselves.
My prayer for Frank is Shalom (strong peace). He is a good man as far as I know.


Thank you, Neal.

But rather than think I am disappointed with you god...why not think that I grew up...and realized that I DO NOT KNOW IF ANY GODS EXIST.

All I can do is to guess one does...and then I would have to guess that it just happens to be the one you guess it is.

The position I have offered as mine...is stronger than any I have seen offered by anyone else here.
Leadfoot
 
  2  
Tue 16 Nov, 2021 01:23 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
My prayer for Frank is Shalom (strong peace). He is a good man as far as I know.

That IS one of the things I cannot know. My Guess is that he is.
That, we could be wrong about.

Edit: Oops, that was for Neal
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Tue 16 Nov, 2021 01:26 pm
Frank said:
Quote:
The position I have offered as mine...is stronger than any I have seen offered by anyone else here.

I sure wish he would address what I offered.
You never know if you don’t try Frank.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Tue 16 Nov, 2021 03:31 pm
@izzythepush,
I stay out of these because they make me disappointed in most self described "Christians".
theMadOne
 
  -1  
Tue 16 Nov, 2021 04:27 pm
@NealNealNeal,
In ILLUSTRATIVE and SYMBOLIC terms.
Study the Pharisees, who often dressed in purple & linen...and who were standing in the crowds!
0 Replies
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Tue 16 Nov, 2021 05:23 pm
@Frank Apisa,
This is the first time you even remotely answered questions.

Care to explain why this HAD to be like pulling teeth? Just answer ******* questions!

Even if a vague answer would have been better than four pages of evasiveness.

It's simple. If you have nothing to hide, you can give a ready answer.
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Tue 16 Nov, 2021 05:46 pm
@theMadOne,
theMadOne wrote:

In Hebrew and Greek "hell" equals the Grave.
Religion warps it into something DISGUSTING!

It's not that simple. The word "hell" itself derives from an Old English word hel or helle refering to a nether world of the dead. In the King James translation of the Bible "hell" is used to translate the Hebrew word "sheol," the grave or the abode of the dead. In the King James translation, Daniel 12:2 refers to "many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." It's also used to translate the Greek word "hades," the abode of the dead, and also "Tartaros" or "Tartarus," "the place of punishment in the netherworld" which appears as the verb ταρταρόω "cast to Tartaros."
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Tue 16 Nov, 2021 05:47 pm
@Leadfoot,
I don't have a problem with Frank himself. I had a problem witth his weird deflection of basic background questions. Yes, I understand that life online has legit privacy concerns.
But it's a bit like meeting someone on the street or in a bookstore, and after striking up a conversation, you ask "So where you from? You have a bit of an accent." Or likewise for questions about their family or job. And they scream, "I DON'T NEED TO TELL YOU WHERE I'M FROM!" It's a bit bizarre. I'd abruptly end the conversation and walk away slowly after that. Even if I was arguing with them, it's antisocial to the point of slight. In fact, this sorta crap reminds me of the kind of meltdowns we see on the Good Doctor show. "Nooooooo, we can't kiss! I can't haaaandle iiiiittt....." That show is terrible btw.
If I met someone at a covfefe shop, and they were having a pleasant enough conversation, and I realize that whenever I ask them about sisters or brothers, they dodge, I conclude one of two possibilities (three really):
(1) They had a very abusive family that they are trying to sweep under the rug
(2) Or they are hiding something (up to and including actually being a spy or pod person)
(2b) The whole story is false

Since I literally have no shame and would not begrudge anyone having unkind relations (sorry about your stuff, btw, Leadfoot that's rough), it makes me wonder why they are still ashamed when I'm not ashamed of them.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Tue 16 Nov, 2021 07:05 pm
@bulmabriefs144,
Quote:
(sorry about your stuff, btw, Leadfoot that's rough)

No, really, I meant it when I said we were thankful for all of it.
At the time we had no idea there was anything wrong with it and later we realized how much bullshit we avoided by our being 'alone'.

Of course that’s how I see it. I am amazed at how almost everyone is, at heart, happy with the way they grew up and would not choose to trade lives with anyone else.

Leadfoot
 
  1  
Tue 16 Nov, 2021 07:14 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
Quote:
I stay out of these because they make me disappointed in most self described "Christians".

You don’t feel the obligation to 'Have an answer for every man' as it is written?

I kind of do, even if it’s for my own sake.
0 Replies
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Wed 17 Nov, 2021 06:36 am
@Leadfoot,
Well yeah, but it's still rough to get there.

In the process of alot of moving, I really never got the sense that I belonged anywhere. I had alot of being the New Weird Kid, and it was worse because my coping mechanism was to act weirder so people would at least think I was interesting. Junior high school was a load of fun. By high school I kinda blended in with the crowd, which honestly made me no less lonely.
I've always had to struggle with extreme isolation and rejection.
One year, in a Passion play (I think it was), I got to read lines for Jesus. Now, most people don't really get Jesus, I've discovered over the years. They kinda associate him with a sorta sinless faultless hero that kinda charges toward his death or something for our sake. But his character can be pretty much summed up in the words "he was in the world (and the world was made by him) and the world knew him not." A man who hasn't any place to lay his head.

I moved from my house to explore because I was disturbed with the idea that I'd sit around and watch my folks die. But it seemed like the song "The bear went over the mountain". The other side of the mountain was all that I saw. I got to see plenty of nature, butit was like I couldn't exactly ditch my car and be a part of it. The cities were stuffy, polluted, and somewhat hopeless as they were all looking for people who already had experience (what the hell kind of sense does that make? You gotta start somewhere) and who were emotionally well-adjusted. And there was nowhere to just hop off and go in to the woods, as you'd find yourself stranded. But nowhere to belong among other people either. After two trips, I kinda had only been hired for cheap gigs, and decided to move back home. I'd heard all these stories of success, and how you kinda get a good job, meet someone, and have a family and such. My big bro has this kind of life, so did my sister. Me? It seems like every job I go to, I dunno how to connect, so I just try to work harder, hoping somehow the universe will reward me with what I really want, and I get friends, family, belonging, and happiness. Instead, the boss shoves work on me, I get stressed out and isolated, and just quit. Or they offer me the wrong kind of payment. What I want is a feeling of fitting in, not more paper that I have no time to spend because I'm too busy.

I think I have found Jesus, but it doesn't matter. I'm sorry, I'm just not very happy right now. It just kinda feels like the world got me down. Yesterday my folks left, and right after, my internet went down. "Just reset the connection," right? No ummmm, the computer is cut off from the internet ( due to a virus) and all computers around it seem to be connected. I wenr to the library, and they were all like "That's nice." And I just kinda felt like it was a metaphor. Everyone else says they have everything they need, and seem to fit in. They're connected to this new normal. I'm alone and out of step. I can't be happy with someone else's normal, nor am I particularly happy with mine. I have a loving familt who unfortunately burdens me more because I honestly feel very depressed but wouldn't want to leave them with my death to deal with. But neither would I want to live alone without them. Sigh....

Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 17 Nov, 2021 06:39 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:


This is the first time you even remotely answered questions.

Care to explain why this HAD to be like pulling teeth? Just answer ******* questions!

Even if a vague answer would have been better than four pages of evasiveness.

It's simple. If you have nothing to hide, you can give a ready answer.


I answered questions because I ACTUALLY ASKED SOME QUESTIONS. (Read the post again. I was giving you an example of questions and answers.)

You were not asking questions.

For someone using an alias to suggest that I, using my real name and who has posted pictures of myself, is hiding something...

...is so absurd, even someone as dense as you should avoid it.

But...expecting anything ethical or reasonable from you is itself unreasonable. You only like to deal with myths and blind guesses.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 17 Nov, 2021 06:42 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:


Well yeah, but it's still rough to get there.

In the process of alot of moving, I really never got the sense that I belonged anywhere. I had alot of being the New Weird Kid, and it was worse because my coping mechanism was to act weirder so people would at least think I was interesting. Junior high school was a load of fun. By high school I kinda blended in with the crowd, which honestly made me no less lonely.
I've always had to struggle with extreme isolation and rejection.
One year, in a Passion play (I think it was), I got to read lines for Jesus. Now, most people don't really get Jesus, I've discovered over the years. They kinda associate him with a sorta sinless faultless hero that kinda charges toward his death or something for our sake. But his character can be pretty much summed up in the words "he was in the world (and the world was made by him) and the world knew him not." A man who hasn't any place to lay his head.

I moved from my house to explore because I was disturbed with the idea that I'd sit around and watch my folks die. But it seemed like the song "The bear went over the mountain". The other side of the mountain was all that I saw. I got to see plenty of nature, butit was like I couldn't exactly ditch my car and be a part of it. The cities were stuffy, polluted, and somewhat hopeless as they were all looking for people who already had experience (what the hell kind of sense does that make? You gotta start somewhere) and who were emotionally well-adjusted. And there was nowhere to just hop off and go in to the woods, as you'd find yourself stranded. But nowhere to belong among other people either. After two trips, I kinda had only been hired for cheap gigs, and decided to move back home. I'd heard all these stories of success, and how you kinda get a good job, meet someone, and have a family and such. My big bro has this kind of life, so did my sister. Me? It seems like every job I go to, I dunno how to connect, so I just try to work harder, hoping somehow the universe will reward me with what I really want, and I get friends, family, belonging, and happiness. Instead, the boss shoves work on me, I get stressed out and isolated, and just quit. Or they offer me the wrong kind of payment. What I want is a feeling of fitting in, not more paper that I have no time to spend because I'm too busy.

I think I have found Jesus, but it doesn't matter. I'm sorry, I'm just not very happy right now. It just kinda feels like the world got me down. Yesterday my folks left, and right after, my internet went down. "Just reset the connection," right? No ummmm, the computer is cut off from the internet ( due to a virus) and all computers around it seem to be connected. I wenr to the library, and they were all like "That's nice." And I just kinda felt like it was a metaphor. Everyone else says they have everything they need, and seem to fit in. They're connected to this new normal. I'm alone and out of step. I can't be happy with someone else's normal, nor am I particularly happy with mine. I have a loving familt who unfortunately burdens me more because I honestly feel very depressed but wouldn't want to leave them with my death to deal with. But neither would I want to live alone without them. Sigh....




What you need is some decent professional counselling. You have major problems. MAJOR.
theMadOne
 
  -1  
Wed 17 Nov, 2021 07:05 am
@InfraBlue,
Of COURSE it has religious meanings attached.
Do you think Christ was referring to such a place?
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Wed 17 Nov, 2021 07:06 am
@Frank Apisa,
Dude, shut up. I'm not even talking to you.

It's nice to be so smug that you can tell people they need therapy because you have everything you want in life (or so you say, anyway). You're like some of these damned jocks that never had to think too much, and everything comes so easy for. They marry some hot lady, settle down and grow old, and never thank God for the life he's given them. So you're perfect? Then go away and stop harassing the rest of us.

But I've been in therapy. Twice. The first time, I worked it off by doing yardwork chores for the lady, and helping her clean her grounds so she could set up a coffee shop. The second time, I was in the city, and spent a good chunk of my salary talking in circles and getting no closer to the core of my unhappiness. I was hoping not to get fired because I was too depressed to function well at work. Didn't help me there, didn't help me resolve any childhood issues, yeah therapy doesn't work. But the book I was told to read, When Panic Attacks, helped me understand what grace is. I learned more from talking to real people, getting real comfort from them than all the money I spent on therapy, which was mostly just her saying "I see," and letting me talk.

Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Wed 17 Nov, 2021 07:34 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:


Dude, shut up. I'm not even talking to you.


When you post in a thread here in A2K...YOU ARE TALKING TO EVERYONE IN THE FORUM.

Quote:
It's nice to be so smug that you can tell people they need therapy because you have everything you want in life (or so you say, anyway). You're like some of these damned jocks that never had to think too much, and everything comes so easy for. They marry some hot lady, settle down and grow old, and never thank God for the life he's given them. So you're perfect? Then go away and stop harassing the rest of us.


I am not perfect...and I am not harassing you.

If you had a toothache, I would suggest you go to a dentist.

If you had severe shortness of breath, I would suggest you see a heart doctor.

You are exhibiting behavior that suggests you should see a mental health professional...so I am suggesting that.

Quote:
But I've been in therapy. Twice. The first time, I worked it off by doing yardwork chores for the lady, and helping her clean her grounds so she could set up a coffee shop. The second time, I was in the city, and spent a good chunk of my salary talking in circles and getting no closer to the core of my unhappiness. I was hoping not to get fired because I was too depressed to function well at work. Didn't help me there, didn't help me resolve any childhood issues, yeah therapy doesn't work. But the book I was told to read, When Panic Attacks, helped me understand what grace is. I learned more from talking to real people, getting real comfort from them than all the money I spent on therapy, which was mostly just her saying "I see," and letting me talk.


If at first you do not succeed, try, try again.

You need help. Get it.

Or continue with the bullshit you are attempting to sell here...and deal with the blowback like an adult rather than a whimpering little baby.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Wed 17 Nov, 2021 07:37 am
@Frank Apisa,
He's also got a very unrealistic view of Scotland.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 17 Nov, 2021 07:39 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

He's also got a very unrealistic view of Scotland.


Being unrealistic is a specialty of Bulma.
 

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