80
   

If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

 
 
neologist
 
  2  
Tue 16 Feb, 2016 04:01 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Perhaps if you would actually look at the bible, you would see what the 'scholars' have missed.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 16 Feb, 2016 04:01 pm
@Leadfoot,
Against your opinion, they win.

Leadfoot
 
  1  
Tue 16 Feb, 2016 04:02 pm
@cicerone imposter,
The judge being?...
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 16 Feb, 2016 04:04 pm
@Leadfoot,
No judge needed; common sense prevails.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Tue 16 Feb, 2016 04:07 pm
@cicerone imposter,
So common sense says 6-7 thousand years in your book. I'm ok with whatever choice you make.
Glennn
 
  0  
Tue 16 Feb, 2016 04:09 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
But the Creator of the universe has no necessity and needs nothing from us.

You might want to try to convince someone who believes that the god does want something from us. Leadfoot, perhaps? But more to the point here, were you not aware of this until now:

For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life.
Does quenched sound about right to you now?
Quote:
If factual, you must accept the writer's assessment of God's supreme ability to regulate events according to his purpose. Abraham's decision, therefore, was completely in line with the standards he already knew about God.

This is what I meant about what happens when you deify a book. When you do that, then a father's willingness to murder his son at the behest of a voice in his head suddenly makes complete sense to you. And the magical power of an animal's blood can wash away transgression (voodoo). But all of that must be true, cuz it's in the book, right?
Quote:
So why do you bother whipping what to you is a dead horse?

Because you insist on propping that dead horse back up, and then calling it alive an not smelling bad.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  1  
Tue 16 Feb, 2016 04:11 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
[Please don't tell me you're hung up on 'blood 'n guts' too. /quote]
No, I believe he is telling you that it was your god who is hung up on the blood and guts aspect when it comes to atonement.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  0  
Tue 16 Feb, 2016 04:14 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
So, would you prefer to worship God's adversary

What kind of an answer is that? What you've basically told everyone is that your allegiance to the god is based on choosing the lesser of two evils.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  0  
Tue 16 Feb, 2016 04:16 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
As I said, the book came along well after I had arrived at my beliefs. Even the book says that 'the spirit' (not the book) 'will lead you into all truth'.

I see. So in your heart, you've always known that it takes blood to wash away your evil deeds? Really?
Glennn
 
  1  
Tue 16 Feb, 2016 04:18 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
I'm hoping to avoid that now that I have a handle on things.

Believe it or not, it is possible to get a handle of things without the god.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 16 Feb, 2016 04:18 pm
@Leadfoot,
The Mormon church claims the earth to be 7000 yo. You can argue with them.
Glennn
 
  1  
Tue 16 Feb, 2016 04:19 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
But I thought we were in agreement that he didn't die? Are you changing your vote?

So the sacrifice was a sham?
Glennn
 
  0  
Tue 16 Feb, 2016 04:21 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
Perhaps it may be appropriate to look at God from his point of view.

Ah, but "his" ways and thoughts are not like ours. So how do you propose we see things from the god's perspective like you apparently can? You can actually see the god as the god sees itself? You really need to clarify that.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Tue 16 Feb, 2016 04:26 pm
@Glennn,
Quote:

Leadfoot Quote:
"As I said, the book came along well after I had arrived at my beliefs. Even the book says that 'the spirit' (not the book) 'will lead you into all truth'."


I see. So in your heart, you've always known that it takes blood to wash away your evil deeds? Really?
You're no fun when you don't even read what I said to you, or even what you said to me. I agreed with you when you previously said that animal sacrifices only "covered" sins, not washed them away. Review your own posts...
Glennn
 
  1  
Tue 16 Feb, 2016 04:32 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
I agreed with you when you previously said that animal sacrifices only "covered" sins, not washed them away.

Whether the blood of animals washes away transgressions against the god, or it only served as a down payment for transgressions doesn't change the fact that you are claiming to have arrived at such a thing before reading about it.

Where did I say that animal sacrifices covered sins?
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Tue 16 Feb, 2016 04:32 pm
@Glennn,
Quote:
So the sacrifice was a sham?
A sham? I cannot even imagine being separated from my loved one for 33 years. A few hours was almost more than I could bear.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Tue 16 Feb, 2016 04:34 pm
@Glennn,
Quote:
doesn't change the fact that you are claiming to have arrived at such a thing before reading about it.
No, it doesn't.
Glennn
 
  1  
Tue 16 Feb, 2016 04:38 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
A sham? I cannot even imagine being separated from my loved one for 33 years.

What you have said here is that your sense of time and the god's sense of time are the same. Have you forgotten that Peter said that with the Lord, a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day? So . . .
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  1  
Tue 16 Feb, 2016 04:41 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
No, it doesn't.

Really? Your pre-Bible phase of life included you coming to the conclusion that it takes blood to cover wrongdoing?
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Tue 16 Feb, 2016 04:46 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
The Mormon church claims the earth to be 7000 yo. You can argue with them
But you are the one who asked me the question. If I wanted to argue with the Mormon church I would have taken it up with them. I hear they have a website and everything.
0 Replies
 
 

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