If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

@cicerone imposter,

I don't want to know the god. If it asks me to murder my son, I would have to refuse, and then later end up in a lake of fire.

1 Reply

@Glennn,

That a god would even test someone by asking a father to kill his own son is a cowardly god. If he wants to control man, he should prove it through love, not violence.

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@Glennn,

Quote:

You would be incorrect. Why would I care be aware of the fact that I didn't make the grade and am about to be annihilated? Your belief about my wanting the chance to vent my anger towards the god for not giving a **** about my opinion is not based on reason.

Just wondering how you felt about the subject man. It's not all about you.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Must be more to the story than meets the eye, don't you think? Otherwise, why in the heck would the Bible writer (probably Moses) include it in the text?

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@Leadfoot,

Quote:

I'd think you would want the chance to at least say "You never gave a **** about my opinion you sorry assed excuse for a God".

Here you are telling me what you think I would want. When I tell you that you would be incorrect in that assumption, you accuse me of thinking that it's all about me?

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@neologist,

Quote:

Must be more to the story than meets the eye, don't you think? Otherwise, why in the heck would the Bible writer (probably Moses) include it in the text?

What more could there be to the story that would justify a father's willingness to murder his own son at the behest of a voice in his head?

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@Glennn,

Quote:

Here you are telling me what you think I would want. When I tell you that you would be incorrect in that assumption, you accuse me of thinking that it's all about me?

Yeah, I kind'a do. You seem more focused on venting your hostility to the theology behind the OP rather than addressing the points raised or how you arrived at that hostility.

Hostility is fine but tell me how you got there, not just 'you're wrong'.

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@Caesar,

Really, what the Bible is referring to is not a literal place but a state or condition. For example, I'm sure you have in your personal study come across texts such as Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10 which show that rather than being conscious, the dead are in a state of complete unconsciousness or inactivity, non existence. This is the case for both the righteous and the unrighteous as Acts 24:15 shows. Romans 5:12 and 6:23 show that the Bible hell mentioned is not a place of torment but infact is the common grave of mankind. What Jesus death accomplishes is it provides a release from death by means of a resurrection.

Upon being resurrected persons will have a second opportunity to come to know what God requires of them. If they choose to apply what they learn they will experience the realization of living forever, but this time in perfect conditions. But should a person choose not to comply with what God instructs them to do, he will return them back to that state of non existence, in death where there is no consciousness of anything. There is where they will remain for all time. But not in some torturous buning hell that some have tried to apply to the Scriptures. Keep in mind Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10 and help people to see that the dead are conscious of absolutely nothing at all.

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@Glennn,

I wrote:

Must be more to the story than meets the eye, don't you think? Otherwise, why in the heck would the Bible writer (probably Moses) include it in the text?

Glennn wrote:

What more could there be to the story that would justify a father's willingness to murder his own son at the behest of a voice in his head?

Well, first of all, that's not the story.

1 Reply

@Leadfoot,

Quote:

You seem more focused on venting your hostility to the theology behind the OP rather than addressing the points raised

Now you're accusing me of venting my hostility here. You are interpreting challenges to your beliefs as hostility. You are seeing hostility where there are only difficult questions concerning the nature of the god you believe in, and the ridiculousness of human-like courtroom proceedings surrounding the scenario of Judgment Day where you will be woke up for the purpose of being told to go back to sleep.
________________________________________

Now back to the discussion. The issue of the god's foreknowledge in this discussion concerns the fact that, once you're dead, the god is aware of whether or not you made the grade; no foreknowledge of events required; just knowledge of your past. So, what is the purpose of waking you up just to tell you to go back to sleep?

1 Reply

@neologist,

Quote:

Well, first of all, that's not the story.

Perhaps you would care to put the father's willingness to murder his son at the behest of a voice in his head into the proper context.

2 Replies

@Glennn,

I'm listening too!

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@Glennn,

Quote:

So, what is the purpose of waking you up just to tell you to go back to sleep?

I would assume it's for those who would want to know. Like I said, I would and it's hard for me to imagine anyone not wanting to, even if I were a life long atheist. I'm incurably curious.

1 Reply

@Leadfoot,

Quote:

I would assume it's for those who would want to know.

Actually, it's for everyone, regardless of one's desire to know.

I'm still puzzled by your need to be woken up for the purpose of being told to go back to sleep. As I said before, your life is over, and the record is clear; you didn't make the grade. You believe that the god is righteous and just. Therefore, you know that you have absolutely no chance of swaying the god's verdict concerning your guilt. What point is there to your curiosity except as an expression of disbelief, which, when you think about it, is a lack of faith in your god's judgment. You're going to be as if you had never been. So how will hearing why you didn't make the grade serve you when your time is up?

1 Reply

@Glennn,

Quote:

What point is there to your curiosity except as an expression of disbelief, which, when you think about it, is a lack of faith in your god's judgment. You're going to be as if you had never been. So how will hearing why you didn't make the grade serve you when your time is up?

I was speaking hypothetically, trying to put myself in someone else's place. But if you really aren't curious that's OK.

1 Reply

@Leadfoot,

Quote:

I was speaking hypothetically, trying to put myself in someone else's place.

The hypothetical, in this case, occurs in a condition in which you are unconscious. From that place, you are not curious about anything because you're not conscious.

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@Glennn,

Quote:

The hypothetical, in this case, is a condition in which you are unconscious. From that place, you are not curious about anything because you're not conscious.

Note to Glennn:

We're not dead yet.

1 Reply

@Leadfoot,

You misunderstand. You said you would be curious to know why you didn't make the grade. You won't know whether or not you made the grade until after you die. Do you understand that?

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@Glennn,

Yeah, I might die in my sleep tonight, but right now I know I'd want to be woken up to know the outcome.

But right now, you're telling me you wouldn't want that? OK.

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@Leadfoot,

Yeah, you want to know right now, perhaps. But if you die in your sleep tonight, and the god already knows that you didn't make the grade, there's nothing you can do to change the god's verdict. Therefore, wanting to be woken up to be told to go back to sleep is pointless and illogical.

You forget that you're speaking from a place of consciousness right now. If you were dead and unconscious, you wouldn't want to know anything because you would not be. You're having a problem fathoming that. Why would the god involve itself in such a meaningless, pointless, and illogical process?

1 Reply

If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

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