Is masturbation evil?

I do not necessarily agree that *if* a fantasy is needed, it *must* demean the partner. Why?

a) Because if I slept with a girl and she needed to believe that I was a space alien in order for her to be satisfied, I would not feel demeaned, I would quite like it.

b) I'll bet there are lots of guys out there who would not feel demeaned if their partner needed to wear sexy high heels etc. and act out the part of a high class call girl in order to be satisfied.

I do not think that condemnation of masturbation reduces the temptation to bring overt harmful real world actions to life. Why? Because I do not see a direct cause and effect between increased masturbation and increased overt harmful real world actions.

The healthily mind is able to differentiate / discern. Therefore any and all fantasies are fair game for a healthily mind.

As an aside I don't agree that the possibilities of fantasy are limited to the images presented in a culture. I would argue that the possibilities of fantasy are limited only by the imagination, which may go well beyond images presented in a culture.

There are many countries/cultures/societies that have extreme censorship of media. There does not appear to be any corresponding decrease in sex crimes.

As to your priest counter-argument, I am not aware of any proof which suggests that wet dreams moderate sexual frustrations, and hence overt harmful real world actions.

Where is the proof that a healthy mind needs moderation of sexual fantasies, through reducing masturbation?

So, spendius, did they tell you to avoid the locals and just wank off instead?

It doesn't if the partner is appraised of it.Otherwise I think it does.

Ask a detective about the next one.

The powers decide that.They might only be concerned with those where there is a connection and they know the rest will be okay assuming there are no non criminal negativities.

Well-that goes against Pavlovianism again.And not all minds are healthy.See last point.

I'll agree but you are talking about mysticism and spirituality there.

I don't know about that.What about orders of monastics?One might need to define a "sex crime" to deal with that.

I gather one does meet a higher class of partner though in such dreams.

You need to define a "healthy mind" and there's a temptation to be subjective doing that.

The powers decide that.They might only be concerned with those where there is a connection and they know the rest will be okay assuming there are no non criminal negativities.
Non comprende

Agreed if you argue that Pavlov rules and free will is dead. I also agree that not all minds are healthy, but where are the arguments that inhibitions to masturbation improve mental health?

If I was to live in Africa, the images presented in traditional African culture would not likely include being a deep ocean submariner, yet I could devise a fantasy in which such images were presented so no mysticism or spirituality needed.

The one that befits this conversation would be: do not do any overt real world harm as motivated by sexual fantasies.

what i have heard is that masturbatuon is a sin

Chum-

I think it is demeaning for a lady to be used as a pure physical object which she must become if the man having sexual connection with her has some other person in the forefront of his mind and in other circumstances than the one they are in.And,if she is averagely observant,she will know, if not the details of the fantasy, that one is occuring.One could hardly call that making love.

Detectives who investigate sex crimes I meant.They know about these things as do psychologists.

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The powers decide that.They might only be concerned with those where there is a connection and they know the rest will be okay assuming there are no non criminal negativities.
Non comprende

It isn't an easy point to get across.There are plenty of people,the vast majority,who present no problem using recreational drugs.The laws about drug use are basically aimed at the others.It is the same with speed limits.
When a young person dies after taking Ecstasy,whether the drug causes the death or not,the story is front page news and brings forth an outcry condemning Ecstasy and calling for stiffer penalties to be applied to dealers.With,it is said,millions of young people taking Ecstasy every weekend without coming to any harm a situation arises of tension between sensationalising media and common sense.I don't recall one of these cases for sometime but if one happens next weekend it will get splash treatment.

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Agreed if you argue that Pavlov rules and free will is dead. I also agree that not all minds are healthy, but where are the arguments that inhibitions to masturbation improve mental health?

I am inclined to doubt free will.
As I have said you need to define mental health without your own mental health being the benchmark.There is no definite answer to your question here.There are schools of thought.I do tend to agree with you but there are matters you don't take into account.There is an intellectual case to be made for askesis(asceticism) and also for orgies.In fact in the extreme these are often linked as with Lent and Easter celebrations.A period of self denial followed by a blow out.Both these extremes are so toned down in the average person that the difference between then is not really noticed in daily life.But that doesn't apply to some people.Some people go these extremes for what they claim are spiritual purposes.
You need to see that there are,as Lenin said,the ones who do and the ones to whom it is done.You and I are in the latter group I presume and it is often incomprehensible what the other lot do from that position.

It is a complex subject as I keep reminding you.You won't find any easy answers and my advice is to beware of anybody who offers any.

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If I was to live in Africa, the images presented in traditional African culture would not likely include being a deep ocean submariner, yet I could devise a fantasy in which such images were presented so no mysticism or spirituality needed.

Well Chum-I never heard of deep ocean submariner symbols in masturbation fantasies before.I think you ought to consider the top shelf magazines first.I am generally speaking in terms which have the healthy female of our species as the main content of the fantasy.That is difficult enough given the "good" and the "terrible" types without going underwater.Are you moving towards equipment fetishism.Motor car fanatics say.

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The one that befits this conversation would be: do not do any overt real world harm as motivated by sexual fantasies.

Can't you see how subjective that is.What is real harm.Marines in Iraq.And what type of person becomes a Marine or a fighter pilot.
If you are right and inhibiting masturbation is harmful then why not have demonstrations of techniques on prime time TV and discussions of this nature in schools.What's your view on Freud's claim of infant sexuality and Huxley's scene in Brave New World.

I think we should take our society roughly as we find it and work with the established and agreed patterns as best we can.I think the balance of inhibition/release is probably about right and if it isn't the "ones who do" are cocking up and they are the only ones with the expertise to organise such a very complex matter.

what i have heard is that masturbatuon is a sin

what i have heard is that masturbatuon is a sin