Booman, Tartarin - when I read your posts, I am encouraged that my addiction to forums like this is not entirely without merit. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks, Snood!
Booman, is that peace dove flying backwards?
Now, snood I just have to take exception ... There ARE no other forums like this.
But I agree with the rest of your comment, and echo it, including among the group of "Folks who make it worthwhile" you and most of the others involved in this segment of this thread.
And Booman, great to see you on a thread again. I really gotta get out more.
timber
Timber,
...I was honestly thinking the same thing about you, seems like today is the first time in a while. Is that Mr. Kotter's theme song I hear.
Booman wrote: Aww shucks Roger.
TW,
...I can appreciate that, but just so you know what I mean: If I'm stopped by a couple of white cops for being in a white neighborhood after dark, I'm not going to tell them "Hey, you can't do treat me like this, I know my rights." History tells me to pre-judge this situation, and be humble, because I could very easily get my head blown off, for such a statement , even if I say it politetly. If you can't understand, or believe this , I'll have to accept that. LOL
Booman - What can I tell you? You want to justify your racism by pointing to the reality that some others are racist. Perhaps you are completely justified in doing so, but I can only tell you that if you met me on a street and assumed I was a racist because I am white you would be wrong and would be showing bigotry. Reacting calmly in the face of racism--real or perceived--isn't prejudging others, it is rising above. Instead of assuming those cops mean you ill because you are black, you might as easily assume they do not, and react with real calm and courtesy. That makes you better than the racists, instead of putting you on their level.
Tres -- I honestly think that's naive. I don't think anyone who isn't African American in this country has a clue about the hazards people of color experience, even when just driving down the street (while black, as they say). Look at the numbers of black professionals who recount endless stories of discrimination and mistreatment. Look at the Jersey state police. Reacting calmly would be awfully nice. I wish our current political leadership would do that!
Tartan:
Not only people of color, but what about the sterotyping and discrimination against gays, lesbians and transgenders?
Tres, I think you are reading things into Booman's statements that just aren't there. His example is ~"stopped by a couple of white cops in a white neighborhood", and you've changed this to you and he meeting on the street. Caution in a potentially dangerous situation has nothing to do with racism. In fact if I were stopped in my car by a cop at night, I do not believe I would choose to exercise my constitutional right to go digging around under the front seat or in the glove box. Actually, I would turn on the dome light and keep my white little hands in plain sight, regardless of the race of the officer.
In general, by the way, I think the 'racist' label is way over used.
New Haven- Right! And what about women? Females have been so discriminated against in our society, in many subtle and not so subtle ways, that most people hardly ever notice anymore, it is so taken for granted.
we just had a case here in colorado where 2 brothers beat nearly to death a 16 yr old young man because he was gay, police refused to even file charges, the young man's mother filed a civil rights charge and the judge found against the brothers (perps) $1.5 million saying it was a horrendous assault.
How Tres overlooked the part about "treating each person fairly one on one", and me feeling shame, for my inadverant racism, I don't know. Maybe it's hard to see everything I wrote, through those rose-colored glasses. Tres, I thought you would get the point, when I said you might possibly be like a guy who altered my philosophy in life for the better.
...Thanks you guys for getting it, and trying to help interpret.
Just a thought.
Might it be the there is a blurring of distinction between "Preference" and "Prejudice"?
Racism, as any other prejudice, cuts both ways. Each side exploits the actionss of the other side to support its own particular prejudice. Blacks may perceive the depredations and excesses of a minority of whites to be characteristic of the group as a whole, while whites may perceive the violence and criminality of a minority of Inner City Blacks is typical of The Black Culture. It's not an exclusively American thing. It is there in Northern Ireland, it is there in The Holyland, it is anywhere there is ignorance, misunderstanding, and hate. It is everywhere.
Damnit.
timber
Timber- So true. But I will go a further than you when you mention Ireland or the Holyland. It is everywhere. It is only more apparent in those places.
Whenever one person meets another, there is always this judging- Who is the better, smarter, more sophisticated etc. etc. There is always a certain amount of anxiety involved, especially when the person does not have a secure ego and sense of self esteem.
So it makes it much easier, and less threatening, when that person can automatically feel superior to an entire group of people. It is when each person meets another, one on one, and evaluates the person for what he is, that prejudice will diminish. Unfortunately, we have not evolved to that point, although I do have hope for humanity!
Timber
Most people never look into the mirror. They only see or preceive injustices or prejudice aimed at them. Prejudice does indeed cut both ways.
But in a society which is inherent open, fair and just, these complaints tend to go away. I wish -- I WISH -- we could give up invasions of other countries and concentrate on healing our own country. I don't think that's "idealism," I think that's a practical solution to the problem of terrorism and the problem of real or perceived racism.