Prisoners 'killed' at US Base

If he's guilty, I share the same hope. I also hope that any country or military people who are using torture or commiting other infractions of international law get the same punishment.

There are no evidences that the injuries to the detainees were caused by the U.S. military personnel.

So who the heck is running Guantanamo?

The U.S. Armed Force does. But the detainees might have been beaten up by other inmates for different reasons. For example, for cooperation with the American investigators, or for mere stealing of personal items of other inmates.

In whose custody?

In American, of course, but this does not matter. Such things might have happened in any penitentiary or detention center. It is technically impossible to monitor large number of people 24/7.

with all of them in individual cells?

Steissd, A major campaign issue for Bush was "accountability" and "personal responsibility." When you do something which is already over the edge of international law (establish a remote prison which can't be monitored), where prisoners may have no legal counsel (strictly against US law), and you then compound it by not taking responsibility for your charges, I think you're ripe for serious punishment.

OK, by all means, there are no proofs that they were beaten by any specific U.S. soldier. And if the guilt is not proven, then we may assume that the soldiers are innocent.

Well, steissd, on another thread you were arguing the other way round about 'who's innocent until when'.

I am talking about the American soldiers now, and not about terror suspects.

and handcuffed, feet chained and blindfolded? And they beat eachother up? What are they, Houdini's grandchildren?

I have no clue who are their grandparents, I guess, unlike Houdini, they were not Italians. I just do not see any proofs that they were beaten up by the U.S. soldiers.

Not surprising.

The difference between you and I is that you "tend to believe" the worst, despite the limited information you have. You assume, based on your own personal biases that the worst is probably true. I consider it possible, even plausible, that some US personnel may have caused these deaths, but recognize that neither you nor I have anywhere near enough information to come to a meaningful conclusion as to the question of foul play in these incidents.

Your bias leads you to make a decision that reason and logic does not support your making at this time. It also leads you to wrongly assume that others would do likewise. You assume that people must either believe someone killed these men or believe that it's not possible that someone killed them. You ignore the far more rational option; that some of us might actually withhold judgement given how little factual information any of us has with which to form an opinion.

I don't doubt that some are just as prone to assume the rosiest explanation as you are to assume the most sinister, but please try to remember that there is yet another group that looks at reports like these and simply tries to absorb the available information and determine what happened. Unless you know something that hasn't been shared here, none of us has anything approaching enough information to make that call.

To illustrate how the terror suspects 'live':








Now explain me who else but US soldiers can beat them to death?

These are certain episodes that do not cover all the time of their being there. I do not know even what are those episodes: maybe, this is a reception procedure of the new inmates. It is quite possible that they stay in the cells without any chains and handcuffs.
These people could have avoided such a destiny: they simply should not join Taliban/Al-Qaeda. They have to blame no one but themselves.

How can you be sure all the inmates are Al-Qaida related?


What about these men?

And this story?

That is the quote from the article that the first Frolic's link points to. It contradicts accusations against U.S. Army in torturing the detainees.
One more quote:
This is the explanation of presence of random people in the detention facility.
The first article provides evidence that after the thorough background check people that do not pose security threat are being released.

Frolic - Are you suggesting that the prisoners are never alone in the company of other prisoners; that it is impossible for one prisoner to harm another?

[quote]20 Guantanamo prisoners moved to medium security
By Ian James, Associated Press, 3/4/2003

AN JUAN -- The military has moved 20 prisoners into a new medium-security prison block at US Naval Base, Guantanamo Bay, Cuba -- an apparent reward for cooperating with interrogators that could lead to their eventual release.

The detainees were moved this weekend to Camp 4 from an adjacent high-security prison where they were held in individual cells, said Lieutenant Colonel Barry Johnson, a military spokesman.

He said the new camp, which is still under construction, offers rewards for cooperative prisoners, including dormitories for communal living, more books, and additional showers and recreation time. Currently, those in the high-security prison may exercise twice a week for 15 minutes.

There are about 650 detainees from more than 40 countries at the US Naval Base in eastern Cuba. All are accused of having links to Afghanistan's fallen Taliban regime or Al Qaeda terrorist network, although none has been formally charged. Those moved to the medium-security camp are ''likely candidates'' for ''eventual release,'' Johnson said.

The indefinite detention without charge or access to lawyers has depressed some prisoners. Sixteen have tried to commit suicide.

During the weekend, one of the 16 tried to kill himself again, Johnson said. ''The guards on hand . . . prevented any serious injury,'' he said.

Another man who tried to hang himself Jan. 16 remains hospitalized in stable condition.

The prisoners' only contact with relatives has been through notes censored by the military and delivered by the Red Cross.

The military says it is offering detainees rewards for good behavior and cooperation with interrogators. Aside from the possibility of being moved to the new camp, privileges include chewing gum, extra religious books, and peanut butter and jelly, officials say.

This story ran on page A6 of the Boston Globe on 3/4/2003.[/quote]