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Should DeLay resign

 
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Oct, 2005 06:51 am
kelticwizard wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
It isn't that DeLay has been charged with conspiracy that is weak; it's that the charge of conspiracy is weak.

But we admittedly don't know what the evidence is to establish the conspiracy.


The second sentence contradicts the first. First we must see the evidence, only then may we judge the strength of the conspiracy charge.


The "charge" I'm referring to is contained in the indictment. The "charge" does not indicate any facts to support itself .... it merely alleges a conspiracy amongst the charged co-conspirators.


KW wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
What's most "weak" is the indictment.

As you have admitted that neither you nor the public have seen Earle's evidence yet, how can you make that statement?


Because the indictment is a piece of paper, which I've read ... and it is weak.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Oct, 2005 07:29 am
A morning gift, just for Tico...

Quote:
AUSTIN, Texas -- Jeez, that was quite a hissy fit Tom DeLay had, calling Ronnie Earle a rogue prosecutor, a partisan fanatic and an unabashed partisan zealot out for personal revenge.

Ronnie Earle? Our very own mild-mannered -- well, let's be honest, bland as toast, eternally unexciting, Mr. Understatement, Old Vanilla -- Ronnie Earle? If the rest of Tom DeLay's defense is as accurate as his description of Ronnie Earle, DeLay might as well have himself measured for a white jumpsuit right now.

For the one-zillionth time, of the 15 cases Ronnie Earle has brought against politicians over the years, 12 of them were against Democrats. Earle was so aggressive in going after corrupt Democrats, the Republicans never even put up a candidate against him all during the '80s. Partisan is not a word anyone can honestly use about Ronnie Earle, but that sure doesn't stop the TV blabbermouths. So many of them have bought the Republican spin that Earle is on a partisan witch-hunt, the watchdogs like Media Matters can hardly keep up.

On the other hand, I've never liked conspiracy charges. They are notoriously weak and often just an add-on when a prosecutor wants to make someone look bad going in: "... and he's been charged with six felonies!"

Conspiracy as a stand-alone charge is particularly hard to prove without evidence of other concrete acts. Was there a conspiracy to move corporate cash from DeLay's federal PAC to influence Texas legislative races? On the basis of what we have already known for months, that's a "Does a bear poop in the woods?" question. But as all watchers of "Law and Order" know, what anyone with common sense would conclude can be a long way from what can proved in a courtroom.

On the other hand, Earle has already had one spectacular failure trying to prosecute a high-profile Republican. His 1993 case against Kay Bailey Hutchison was a flame-out: The judge indicated in pre-trial hearings he had doubts about the admissibility of Earle's evidence, so Earle withdrew the charges -- no point if he couldn't present his evidence. The judge wasn't satisfied and directed the jury to acquit Hutchison. Hutchison had an unbeatable legal team -- Dick DeGuerin and Mike Tigar. For Earle, this is a case of once-stung.

Speaking of the aforementioned Dick DeGuerin, he is now defending Tom DeLay. Want to know how good DeGuerin is? One of his recent clients was Robert Durst, heir to a New York real estate fortune, who admitted killing and dismembering an unfortunate vic in Galveston. Durst was a suspect in a California killing at the time and had moved to Galveston posing as a deaf-mute woman.

Durst jumped bail on the Galveston charge and was arrested in Pennsylvania for stealing a chicken sandwich while carrying two guns and $38,000. DeGuerin got him acquitted on the murder charge on the grounds of self-defense, but they nailed him for the guns and tampering with evidence -- that would be dismembering the corpse. They let him slide on the chicken sandwich charge. I swear, I'm not making up any of this. That's how good Dick DeGuerin is.

If I were fool enough to give DeGuerin advice, it would be, "Don't let DeLay on the stand." The man just can't help himself -- he's just too mean, he always pushes it that step too far, like the cheap shot about Earle not coming to work unless there's a press conference on. (Ronnie Earle comes to work every day -- you can ask anyone at the county courthouse.)

That DeLay always takes things a step too far is apparent from his record. This is the man who pushed Bill Clinton's impeachment when everyone knew it would end with acquittal. He fixed his repeated troubles with the House ethics committee in typical fashion by going after the committee itself. His bludgeoning style earned him his nickname, "The Hammer."

Sometimes, but not that many, it is hard to tell the difference between playing political hardball and operating with no moral compass whatever. But in DeLay's case, we have a very long record, and what it is shows is that this is a man who has repeatedly crossed ethical and legal lines, and then claimed he was just playing hardball politics -- and that anyone who complained about it was just a partisan whiner. Whenever he is really threatened, DeLay plays the Jesus card and claims he is standing up "for a biblical worldview in everything I do and everywhere I am."

Back in 2003, when DeLay was involved in a sleazy legislative payoff to a big donor, his press secretary offered this defense, "It is wrong and unethical to link legislative activities to campaign contributions." It is precisely that upside-down quality about DeLay's bulletproof sense of moral rectitude that makes it so bizarre. Suddenly, it is not wrong or unethical to try to slip an unrelated amendment to help a campaign donor into the defense appropriations bill, it's wrong and unethical to raise questions about it.

To tell the truth, I don't think Tom DeLay is smart enough to keep getting away with this stuff.
link
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Oct, 2005 10:32 am
Degrees Of Separation, Paul Krugman
Opinion: Degrees Of Separation, Paul Krugman (excerpts)
Bush Watch
10/1/05

David Safavian is a former associate of Jack Abramoff, the recently indicted lobbyist. Mr. Safavian oversaw U.S. government procurement policy at the White House Office of Management and Budget until his recent arrest. Mr. Safavian is charged with misrepresenting his connections with lobbyists - specifically, Mr. Abramoff - while working at the General Services Administration. A key event was a lavish golfing trip to Scotland in 2002, mostly paid for by a charity Mr. Abramoff controlled. Among those who went on the trip was Representative Bob Ney of Ohio....

Tyco paid $2 million, most going to firms controlled by Mr. Abramoff, as part of its successful effort to preserve tax advantages it got from shifting its legal home to Bermuda. Timothy Flanigan, a general counsel at Tyco, has been nominated for the second-ranking Justice Department post. Mr. Abramoff was indicted last month on charges of fraud relating to his purchase of SunCruz, a casino boat operation. Mr. Ney inserted comments in the Congressional Record attacking SunCruz's original owner, Konstantinos "Gus" Bolus, placing pressure on him to sell to Mr. Abramoff and his partner, Adam Kidan, and praised Mr. Kidan's character....

Last week three men were arrested in connection with the gangland-style murder of Mr. Boulis. SunCruz, after it was controlled by Mr. Kidan and Mr. Abramoff, paid a company controlled by one of the men arrested, Anthony "Big Tony" Moscatiello, and his daughter $145,000 for catering and other work. In court documents, questions are raised about whether food and drink were ever provided. SunCruz paid $95,000 to a company in which one of the other men arrested, Anthony "Little Tony" Ferrari, is a principal....

Tom DeLay, who stepped down as House majority leader after his indictment, once called Mr. Abramoff "one of my closest and dearest friends." Mr. Abramoff funneled funds from clients to conservative institutions and causes. The Washington Post reported that associates of Mr. DeLay claim that he severed the relationship after Mr. Boulis's murder....
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Oct, 2005 11:03 am
I'm not making any judgements until the court decision, but it doesn't look too good for DeLay; seems like only a slow-down.
0 Replies
 
Chrissee
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Oct, 2005 12:05 pm
But Blatham, your source is that hysterical liberal Molly Ivins, just typical leftists fodder! Smile
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Oct, 2005 06:05 pm
Some interesting DeLayisms:


Ten Mind-Numbingly Stupid Quotes by Tom DeLay

From Daniel Kurtzman, http://politicalhumor.about.com/

1) "So many minority youths had volunteered … that there was literally no room for patriotic folks like myself." -- Tom DeLay, explaining at the 1988 GOP convention why he and vice presidential nominee Dan Quayle did not fight in the Vietnam War

2) "Now tell me the truth boys, is this kind of fun?" -- Tom Delay, to three young hurricane evacuees from New Orleans at the Astrodome in Houston, Sept. 9, 2005

3) "I AM the federal government." -- Tom DeLay, to the owner of Ruth's Chris Steak House, after being told to put out his cigar because of federal government regulations banning smoking in the building, May 14, 2003

4) "We're no longer a superpower. We're a super-duper power." -- Tom DeLay, explaining why America must topple Saddam Hussein in 2002 interview with Fox News

5) "Nothing is more important in the face of a war than cutting taxes." -- Tom DeLay, March 12, 2003

6) "Guns have little or nothing to do with juvenile violence. The causes of youth violence are working parents who put their kids into daycare, the teaching of evolution in the schools, and working mothers who take birth control pills." -- Tom DeLay, on causes of the Columbine High School massacre, 1999

7) "A woman can take care of the family. It takes a man to provide structure. To provide stability. Not that a woman can't provide stability, I'm not saying that ... It does take a father, though." -- Tom DeLay, in a radio interview, Feb. 10, 2004

8) "I don't believe there is a separation of church and state. I think the Constitution is very clear. The only separation is that there will not be a government church." -- Tom DeLay

9) "Emotional appeals about working families trying to get by on $4.25 an hour [the minimum wage in 1996] are hard to resist. Fortunately, such families do not exist." -- Tom DeLay, during a debate in Congress on increasing the minimum wage, April 23, 1996

10) "I am not a federal employee. I am a constitutional officer. My job is the Constitution of the United States, I am not a government employee. I am in the Constitution." -- Tom DeLay, in a CNN interview, Dec. 19, 1995
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Oct, 2005 09:36 pm
kelticwizard wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
Vague (or not so) comparisons between Tom Delay and Carmine Gigante!
That's Vincent "The Chin" Gigante, not Carmine "Cigar" Galante, thank you very much.

My mistake, you are, obviously, more acquainted with the Cosa Nostra than am I.


Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
It is pure idiocy to compare, implicitly or explicitly, DeLay with the Mafia....
Yes, DeLay took an oath to uphold the laws and the Constituition when he took the job. Gigante didn't.

Still ...idiotic.


Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
The only reason I might hope for DeLay to beat this rap is because it is entirely politically motivated.
And you know this how, considering you have not seen the evidence Earle has collected?


Because I have the rare ability to read men's minds, and I have done so with Mr. Earle's. I shall be sure to ask you for similar proof when next you state an opinion, but I know, for a fact, that you don't share my powers.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Oct, 2005 07:32 am
Here is an interesting article about Ronnie Earle and his thoughts...


http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york.asp
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Oct, 2005 09:07 am
Indictment not only cloud hovering over DeLay
An investigation into his dealings with a lobbyist has big implications
By MICHAEL HEDGES

WASHINGTON - The prospects of Tom DeLay ever returning to a leadership position in Congress may be jeopardized more by scandals rooted in Washington than this week's indictment in Texas.

Particularly worrisome for DeLay are a federal investigation into the dealings of Jack Abramoff, a lobbyist who had close ties to the Sugar Land Republican, and a House ethics committee examination of DeLay's trips and any other activities with Abramoff.

"Either being linked to Abramoff in a federal criminal indictment (of Abramoff) or a finding against him by the ethics committee would be hugely damaging," said Thomas Mann, a senior political analyst with the liberal-leaning Brookings Institution.

Larry Noble, a former Federal Elections Commission lawyer, said the accumulation of ethics concerns surrounding DeLay could put him at a "tipping point" where even Republican loyalists feel the party is better served with him relegated to the sidelines. http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/3378292
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Oct, 2005 12:40 pm
I hope that "sideline" means prison time.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 05:19 pm
Another indictment of Delay today for money laundering by a different grand jury. Seems 24 people think he likely committed a crime.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 05:30 pm
parados, Do you have any links?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 08:00 pm
Chrissee wrote:
But Blatham, your source is that hysterical liberal Molly Ivins, just typical leftists fodder! Smile


Well...yes.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 08:01 pm
parados wrote:
Another indictment of Delay today for money laundering by a different grand jury. Seems 24 people think he likely committed a crime.


How cogent. Why bother with trials? An indictment is as good as a guilty verdict.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 08:21 pm
Note True Finn, it took and indictment and a guilty verdict to oust Spiro but it only took a few words from Goldwater to get Nixon on the plane home.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 08:29 pm
dyslexia wrote:
Note True Finn, it took and indictment and a guilty verdict to oust Spiro but it only took a few words from Goldwater to get Nixon on the plane home.


Who can argue with the home-spun wisdom of dyslexia?

A beard, a cowboy hat, and a southwestern address and we are guaranteed a sage of Americana.

And such a funny one at that.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 08:32 pm
I can't contest your wit and wisdom Finn, I still claim to be an honest man.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 08:36 pm
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
How cogent. Why bother with trials? An indictment is as good as a guilty verdict.

An indictment is not as good as a jury verdict.

But, it is the first step toward one.

Did you ever hear of anyone throwing a party to celebrate his indictment?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 08:38 pm
dyslexia wrote:
I can't contest your wit and wisdom Finn, I still claim to be an honest man.


No doubt you are dys, but it is rarely the honesty of the village idiot that is questioned.
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 08:38 pm
Links? You want links? You can't handle links!

So, I'll give you the article: Very Happy

Quote:



Houston Chronicle
0 Replies
 
 

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