DeLay Indictment: Following The Bouncing Money Ball
DeLay Indictment: Following The Bouncing Money Ball
Austin American-Statesman
9/30/05
According to the indictment:
1. Delay conspired with two officials at Texans for a Republican Majority (TRMPAC) or with TRMPAC to launder $155,000 in corporate contributions to Republican legislative candidates in Texas, which is against Texas law.
2. John Colyandro, the PAC head and former executive director of a PAC connected to DeLay, ordered a blank check be given to Jim Ellis, the PAC's consultant who headed DeLay's national political committee
3. Jim Ellis gave that check, filled out for $190,000, to an arm of the Republican National Committee, along with a list of Texas Republican candidates and suggested campaign contributions to them.
4. The arm of the RNC donated $190,000 of non-corporate money to 7 Texas Republican legislative candidates.
5. Politex Question: Is there non-circumstancial evidence of the alleged conspiracy? On the other hand, in Texas people have been tried for murder and executed on circumstancial evidence.
6. Follow-up: According to the Boston Globe, "some analysts said Ronnie Earle, the Travis County, Texas, prosecutor who brought the case, lacked jurisdiction to bring potentially tougher charges of state election law violations. The conspiracy charge that Earle filed is a broader allegation that could be harder to prove in court, analysts said."
At the very least, Delay is guilty of bad judgement. Anyone in his position should use good judgement. He did not. He must go.
woiyo, "Good judgement" expected from politicians is an oxymoron. Some may have better ethics, but look what we got from Jimmy Carter.
cicerone imposter wrote:woiyo, "Good judgement" expected from politicians is an oxymoron. Some may have better ethics, but look what we got from Jimmy Carter.
So long as the voters settle for these candidates, delay, pilozzi et al.. are the kind of morons that will decide the course of this nation.
It's been shown over and over, but neocons still believe this administration is doing a good job! The president appoints a horse show manager to run FEMA, an agency responsible to respond to all manners of crisis in this country, and what we got was horse ****. What's even funnier is the fact that Brown is now blaming not only the state and local government, but the federal government as well.
Bush complimented Brown that he is doing a good job at FEMA just after Katrina. Everything they touch can only go downhill.
KW writes
Quote:Don't put too much stock in the idea that the indictment is vague or weak because it involves conspiracy to commit something, instead of actually committing it. Rudy Giuliani, while a Federal prosecutor, used the similar RICO statues to put half the Mafia behind bars.
Before Giuliani, nobody paid that much attention t the RICO laws, which involve a cooperation with the crime, instead of committing the actual crime. Yet capo after capo went to the hoosegow under the RICO statutes.
One of them, Vincent "The Chin" Gigante, tried to avoid imprisonment by spending the time before his trial wandering the streets of Greenwich Village clad in a bathrobe and slippers, unshaven, unkempt, and mumbling to himself incoherently. The ruse didn't work, as he was sent to the penitentiary anyway, where witnesses say he still ran the crime family by giving quite lucid orders to his family to carry out.
Indictments under conspiracy laws can indeed result in convictions and long prison sentences.
Oh for heavens sakes. You surelyaren't comparing what Delay is charged with to the Mafia. We have a story in the Albuquerque Journal citing all those in the upcoming October 4 election that have been fined for campaign fund irregularities in this campaign. The list includes the current mayor, two of his opponents, and virtually everybody on the City Council. And there isn't a soul who thinks these charges disqualify any of them for anything, let alone are deserving of jail time.
I think KW is missing the point: It isn't that DeLay has been charged with conspiracy that is weak; it's that the charge of conspiracy is weak.
But we admittedly don't know what the evidence is to establish the conspiracy. What's most "weak" is the indictment.
I say keep him around. He's a poster child for everything wrong with Republican domination of our gov't. He's great target for partisan hatred, just like Tip O'Neill was for the right...
And the Democrats never had as savvy or capable a leader as Tip O'Neil was nor has the GOP had a majority leader as competent as Delay has been, and that includes Gingrich.
Vague (or not so) comparisons between Tom Delay and Carmine Gigante!
I'm no fan of The Hammer. He is the sort of no holds barred partisan Tasmanian Devil with which I have so much trouble.
That he has been effective is less an endorsement of him, than an indictment of our political process.
I have no doubt that DeLay skirted each and every law that stood in the way of his political goals, and I abhor the mind set that finds this just A-OK. As a Liberal, I couldn't stand the man, and as a Neo-con, ( Yes, by God, I admit to being a Neo-con!) I find him no more appealing.
However, anyone who thinks this indictment is not a purely political action is a fool or a liar, and just because the man is a seedy s.o.b. who has virtually no self-imposed limits on what he will do to win, doesn't mean he is guilty of a crime.
It is pure idiocy to compare, implicitly or explicitly, DeLay with the Mafia, and it is base partisan idiocy if one is not prepared to include in such comparisons Democratic Party leaders.
The only reason I might hope for DeLay to beat this rap is because it is entirely politically motivated.
If he loses, Congress will be well rid of a prime a-hole, but someone will step in to fill the gap. However, it will not be a victory for justice or the rule of law, it will be a victory for the Democratic Party. Some cretins may assume that the two are synonymous, but then, after all, they are cretins.
Finn writes
Quote:The only reason I might hope for DeLay to beat this rap is because it is entirely politically motivated.
I'm ambivalent about Delay actually. If you read all the hype, he is the devil personified, but I sometimes actually listen to what he says and watch what he does, and he is both competent and effective and very often right. My main disappointment with him is he has not proved effective in restoring the Reagan/Gingrich era GOP core conservative values and emphasis. Regardless of what anybody thinks about Reagan's philosophy or Gingrich's methods, we really were veering onto the right track during that time.
But, if Delay is as corrupt or as demogogueish as some portray him, he'll surely meet his comeupance sooner or later. Meanwhile, it is my personal agenda that if anyone on either side of the aisle is to be hung, it should be for a real crime, and not one engineered for the purposes of political assassination.
Finn, You said it in a way that should have the left and the right agreeing with your assessment. In this country, we are presumed innocent until found guilty. As I've said before, we're just beating our chops/gums assuming he's guilty or not guilty. A little patience won't kill us.
I guess that means Bush was only trying to make headlines for himself when he invaded Iraq, after all he gave Bob Woodward behind the scene access so he could write a book.
It doesn't mean much at all in either case in reality.
But all these prognostications are interesting whether the primary purpose of their actions were to make political or media gains. I think that's a legit area to pursue. Motivations are always interesting.
Foxfyre wrote: And there isn't a soul who thinks these charges disqualify any of them for anything, let alone are deserving of jail time.
Such is really different in other countries.
Ticomaya wrote: It isn't that DeLay has been charged with conspiracy that is weak; it's that the charge of conspiracy is weak.
But we admittedly don't know what the evidence is to establish the conspiracy.
The second sentence contradicts the first. First we must see the evidence, only then may we judge the strength of the conspiracy charge.
Ticomaya wrote:What's most "weak" is the indictment.
As you have admitted that neither you nor the public have seen Earle's evidence yet, how can you make that statement?
Foxfyre wrote: Oh for heavens sakes. You surelyaren't comparing what Delay is charged with to the Mafia.
Both Vincent "The Chin" Gigante and Thomas "The Hammer" DeLay were charged with conspiracy that can lead substantial jail time. In The Chin's case life; in The Hammer's case, two years.
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:Vague (or not so) comparisons between Tom Delay and Carmine Gigante!
That's Vincent "The Chin" Gigante, not Carmine "Cigar" Galante, thank you very much.
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:It is pure idiocy to compare, implicitly or explicitly, DeLay with the Mafia....
Yes, DeLay took an oath to uphold the laws and the Constituition when he took the job. Gigante didn't.
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:The only reason I might hope for DeLay to beat this rap is because it is entirely politically motivated.
And you know this how, considering you have not seen the evidence Earle has collected?
