9
   

Obstructionism: the ultimate trump card?

 
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2018 05:02 pm
@Blickers,
Cool, Boss . . . I do find that darker red easier to read. Thank you.
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2018 05:06 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

No. Politics is about electing people with ethics and good morals. Whether Kavanaugh is a sexual predator or not is the question that must be answered before he is elected to the Supreme Court as a judge. An FBI investigation is warranted.

What I'm starting to think is that the politicians who appear clean are only left alone because they serve their puppeteers. If they didn't, they would be under attack the same way Kavanaugh and many others are now.

If dems were for electing people with ethics and good morals, they wouldn't elect people who lie about using women's objectification as political capital by crying crocodile tears as a rhetorical tactic while quietly laughing and rubbing their hands together on the inside about how they're going to obstruct pro-life from ever getting a voice in democracy.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2018 05:26 pm
@livinglava,
Quote:
If dems were for electing people with ethics and good morals, they wouldn't elect people who lie about using women's objectification as political capital by crying crocodile tears as a rhetorical tactic while quietly laughing and rubbing their hands together on the inside about how they're going to obstruct pro-life from ever getting a voice in democracy.


Pro-life is only one topic. Politics covers everything that has to do with moral leadership. The reason Trump gets low marks is his failures as a human being. He's a known racial bigot, liar, xenophobe, scammer, and women crotch grabber. Unless people take the time to learn about the candidate, they end up voting for anyone that looks and sounds good. That can put our country into great peril both economic and security.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/235022/presidential-moral-leadership-less-important-republicans.aspx

Presidential Moral Leadership Less Important to Republicans
BY JEFFREY M. JONES
Presidential Moral Leadership Less Important to Republicans
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
63% of Republicans say moral leadership is very important
Down from 86% under Clinton
59% of U.S. adults say Trump provides weak moral leadership

Trump's approval rating is 40% and disapproval at 55% according to Gallup.
KingReef
 
  0  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2018 05:36 pm
@Blickers,
Bickers,
Bickers wrote:
Avenatti is such a bad lawyer . . .


You Bicker too much. I agree with you though, in or out of context about Avenatti being a bad lawyer.
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2018 05:45 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Pro-life is only one topic.

Obstructing pro-life is the reason the dems have gotten these women to come forward with accusations about Kavanaugh. Please tell me if you honestly think any of these women would have come forward with any of this if Kavanaugh was not nominated to the supreme court. They could have easily come forward when he was a lower court judge. Why not then? Answer: because their stories are being used as political capital to protect the pornography and human trafficking (pimping) industries.

Is it moral and ethical to attack politicians who threaten the sex industries by allowing the pro-life movement to participate in democracy? Is it moral and ethical to whitewash it by calling it 'pro-woman?'
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2018 05:47 pm
@KingReef,
You guys might be right. Here's an article about Avenatti. https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/22/politics/michael-avenatti-stormy-daniels-10-million/index.html
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2018 05:51 pm
@livinglava,
I don't put too much credence on people who come forward to support any position, because there are always support for both sides of the argument. Subjects such as "pro-life" is one of those. My only opinion about pro-life is that people want to interfere in other peoples reproductive life, but don't want any responsibility for it. Why are people so interested in other people's private life? They sure don't care what happens to the girl/woman or the baby. There are millions of babies born every day in this world around the world that lack healthcare, shelter or food. Are those pro-life people supporting those folks with their energy and/or money? Talk is cheap.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  0  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2018 07:37 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:

Quote Brandon:
Quote:
I didn't say that the accuser has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that his/her accusation is true. I am saying that if person A accuses person B of a crime and has zero evidence of any kind...
Stop right there. You still don't get it. The witness or victim of a crime does not have to produce evidence. Their report is evidence. Uncovering further evidence is the police's job. Only here the Republicans are making sure the police, (in this case the FBI), does not investigate to find evidence because, you know, the witness/victim has no "evidence". Which no witness/victim has to have , aside from their report....

Some victims have evidence, some do not. Sometimes the evidence is witnesses, sometimes it is something else. The police should investigate both types of criminal complaints. However, the police should investigate more if the alleged crime is relatively recent, the victim knows when and where it occurred, and there is the potential for witnesses or physical evidence than if the crime is decades ago, the victim doesn't know when or where it occurred, and the few witnesses who are known say it didn't happen.

Believe me, you don't want to live in a world in which a person need only say you did something bad, without a jot of evidence that it's true, for your life or career to be ruined. Maybe an ex-girlfriend, or someone who doesn't like your Facebook posts, or a mental case will say that they once saw you commit a murder. Yeah, the police can look into it, but until such time as there are a few particles of evidence, you shouldn't be shamed out of your job, or shunned, or forced to move. In fact, you should be presumed innocent until proven guilty.

Dr. Ford doesn't know where it occurred, or when it occurred, or whose party it was, and the few people she named as witnesses deny that the incident took place. Oh, also, she says it was 36 years ago. Yeah, let the police look into it, but not for very long if no evidence whatever turns up that it's true. And until such time as there is some actual evidence, it shouldn't harm Kavanaugh's life or career.

Anyone can accuse anyone of anything, but without a particle of substantiation, nor even the location, the accusation can not yet be considered credible.
0 Replies
 
KingReef
 
  0  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2018 08:19 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Right. Avenatti is a dirty lawyer. . . . I'm not sure if that was what was on his wikipedia article. It sounds the same. He is really shady. So that is why conservatives thought it somewhat entertaining that CNN was acting like Avenatti was someone to have on their news show so often, as if the guy was an honest lawyer talking about true things. Apparently the guy doesn't do ethics. They were letting a crook tell them about the facts of his case against Trump. Maybe CNN and PMSNBC were hoping for their heart's desire.
Blickers
 
  2  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2018 10:12 pm
@KingReef,
King Reef:
If Avenatti is a bad lawyer, how come so far all the stuff Avenatti said has come true in the Trump-Stormy Daniels case?

Avenatti said at the beginning the smartest thing Trump could do would be to let Stormy Daniels tell her story and not to sue her for it. Cohen and Trump sneered and sued Stormy for $20 Million dollars for breach of contract. Directly as a result of that suit which Avenatti warned them not to file, Trump is in more immediate trouble over the Stormy Daniels case and its ramifications than he is over the Russia scandal.

Directly because of that $20 Million dollar lawsuit which Avenatti warned Trump and Cohen not to file, Robert Mueller has access to all of Cohen's records dealing with Trump.

Directly as a result of that $20 Million lawsuit which Avenatti warned Trump and Cohen not to file, Trump is going to be forced to be deposed by Avenatti with criminal penalties if he doesn't answer truthfully to the questions Avenatti asks him.

Directly because of that $20 Million lawsuit which Avenatti warned Trump and Cohen not to file, Michael Cohen, Trump's personal lawyer/fixer for many years, has turned evidence for Mueller against Trump.

Avenatti is such a bad lawyer that, as opposing counsel, he publicly gave Trump much better legal advice than Trump's legal brain trust could do. And Avenatti's hitting a home run for his own client as well. Yes, by all means tell us all about how Avenatti doesn't know what he's doing, lol.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2018 10:20 pm
@Blickers,
Very factual according to my observations. Giuliani vs Avenatti is not a contest at all! Giuliani is a pepsqueek who has lost his wherewithal as an attorney and spokesman.
This one is an interesting read. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/06/rudy-giuliani-very-bad-week
Blickers
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2018 10:40 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Very interesting, cicerone. I remember Rudy embarrassing his wife, Donna Hanover, while openly romanced Judy Nathan back when. Now it's wife Judy Nathan's turn to be embarrassed by Rudy.

Whatever else you want to say about Rudy, though, you have to give him credit for a big part of getting crime under control when he was Mayor of New York. Early in Rudy's term, New York City had over 2,000 murders a year. By the time he was finished, New York City had only 600 or so murders a year. There were improvements in police work and computerization to help track down the criminals that were a big part of that drop in murder rate. But Rudy's policies were a big part of it also.

So even though Rudy is a joke now, he sure wasn't a joke when he was Mayor and got those murder rates in New York to return to sane levels. I view him as a guy who was once great, who should now settle down and enjoy his grandchildren. This is not Rudy's era, it hasn't been for a few years now.
0 Replies
 
KingReef
 
  0  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2018 11:08 pm
@Blickers,
Quote:
Avenatti said at the beginning the smartest thing Trump could do would be to let Stormy Daniels tell her story and not to sue her for it. Cohen and Trump sneered and sued Stormy for $20 Million dollars for breach of contract. Directly as a result of that suit which Avenatti warned them not to file, Trump is in more immediate trouble over the Stormy Daniels case and its ramifications than he is over the Russia scandal.


Prove it.
Blickers
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2018 11:41 pm
@KingReef,

Trump lawyer files to move Stormy Daniels lawsuit to federal court
By REBECCA MORIN
03/16/2018 09:19 PM EDT

https://static.politico.com/dims4/default/6cac2c6/2147483647/resize/1160x/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2F6e%2F85%2Fea7218014c828afc2ff211ce378f%2F180316-cohen-gettyimages-865948696.jpgEssential Consultants LLC, which was allegedly created by Trump’s personal lawyer Michael Cohen for the purpose of hiding "the true source of funds to be used to pay" Daniels, filed a removal to federal court on Friday.

President Donald Trump's personal lawyer is seeking to move a lawsuit filed by adult film star Stormy Daniels against the president to federal court.

The filing also asserts that Cohen or "Defendant Trump" have the right to seek more than $20 million from Daniels for violating a non-disclosure agreement.

Essential Consultants LLC, which was allegedly created by Trump’s personal lawyer Michael Cohen for the purpose of hiding "the true source of funds to be used to pay" Daniels, filed a removal to federal court on Friday.
Source

The setting up by Michael Cohen of the Essential Consultants account specifically to pay Stormy Daniels off led to the probe of the transaction for violation of election contributions. It also led to the probe of the Stormy Daniels payoff for Russian money coming into the Essential Consultants account. This led to Michael Cohen's home and office being raided by Mueller and their seizing of all the business contacts between Trump and Cohen for years. Since Michael Cohen was in on many of Trump's business dealings with Russia, Trump's in big trouble as a result of the evidence gotten in the Michael Cohen raid. Since Cohen himself is in big trouble because of the evidence obtained in the raid, Cohen is now turning evidence for Mueller in an attempt to cut down his prison sentence.

The raid of Cohen's home and office was all because Cohen said he was going to sue Stormy Daniels for a million dollars for every violation of the Non Disclosure Agreement Cohen set up. And early on, Michael Avenatti went on TV and said that Cohen and Trump were crazy if they tried to sue Stormy Daniels. Well, Cohen and Trump sued anyway, and look what happened to them.
KingReef
 
  0  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2018 12:51 am
@Blickers,
I'm looking for the part where it is supposed to convince me of Trump being in more trouble over the Stormy Daniel's lawsuit than he in from the Russia case.

Now give me the benefit of the doubt. I'm not trying to be dishonest here. But I don't see anything about Trump being in trouble, other than the opinion of the writer, Rebecca Morin.

I can say this because the article you showed is dated March, 16, 2018. An article I found from Friday, April 13, 2018 shows that the material from the raid on Cohen's office was still under seal.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/13/trump-lawyer-michael-cohen-tries-to-suppress-information-found-in-fbi-raid.html

So it appears to me, though I could be wrong, that Rebecca Morin was projecting trouble on Cohen and Trump about the Stormy Daniels case, just as she definitely did with the Russia probe.

Do you see what I'm talking about?
neptuneblue
 
  3  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2018 05:12 am
@livinglava,
livinglava wrote:
I used to deny that pro-life people are victims of having their democratic right obstructed to fight for the rights of the unborn. Many people approached me about why they were against abortion, most if not all women. Why were these women upset regarding abortion? Maybe because they feel powerless to do anything about it. Does that address what you're talking about with victimization, or do you consider that a different kind of victimization?


Brett Kavanaugh and the Sexist Double Standard of Being Held Accountable for Your Actions
"Boys will be boys," but girls bear the weight of responsibility.
JILL FILIPOVIC
SEP 18, 2018 9:00PM EDT

In this op-ed, author Jill Filipovic explains the gendered double standards at play as people try to defend Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh in the wake of sexual-misconduct allegations against him.

Personal responsibility sure is a funny thing. Women are supposed to take it when we get pregnant by carrying the pregnancy to term no matter what our circumstances — after all, as some conservatives routinely argue, having sex is apparently an act of profound female irresponsibility, and so the only responsible thing to do is to have a child we didn’t plan for and perhaps can’t afford. Relying on public benefits to support children is also personally irresponsible, those same people may say. And girls, of course, are supposed to be responsible in what we wear and how we act so that we don’t give boys the wrong impression.

For the opposite sex, it’s a different story. “Boys will be boys,” after all. A great number of people seem to think sex, consensual or not, is little more than a conquest for men; they certainly aren’t expected to be the primary preventers of pregnancy in their relationships. Men enjoy sex as a pleasure and a conquest. Women shoulder the responsibilities.

This dynamic is currently playing out in sharp relief with the allegations of attempted sexual assault recently made against Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh by research psychologist Christine Blasey Ford. According to Ford, Kavanaugh and another student pushed her into a room during a party while they were in high school, sexually assaulted her, and attempted to rape her. She alleged Kavanaugh put his hand over her mouth and groped her as he tried to remove her clothing. Both Ford and Kavanaugh may deliver testimony before the Senate on September 24, but in the meantime, some of Kavanaugh’s defenders offer a clever explanation. They say he didn’t try to rape anyone, and even if he did, he was only 17 and therefore it was youthful hijinks and he’s not responsible. “The thing happened — if it happened — an awfully long time ago, back in Ronald Reagan’s time, when the actors in the drama were minors and (the boys, anyway) under the blurring influence of alcohol and adolescent hormones,” wrote Lance Morrow in the Wall Street Journal. The attempted rape “is ugly, and stupid more than evil,” Morrow wrote, continuing, “The sin, if there was one, was not one of those that Catholic theology calls peccata clamantia — sins that cry to heaven for vengeance.”

After all, who among us should face serious consequences for a mistake we made as a hormone-fueled teenager?

Vulnerable teenage girls should, at least according to Kavanaugh. When he was a circuit court judge, Kavanaugh heard the case of Jane Doe, a girl who had come to the United States without her parents and was taken into the U.S. custody. She was pregnant and wanted to exercise her constitutional right to abortion — a right that applies to citizens as well as foreigners in the United States. She was, as another circuit court judge put it, “a child who is alone in a foreign land,” who was clear that she wanted to end her pregnancy. Kavanaugh wanted to delay her ability to do so, arguing that the government should not facilitate her abortion. She was already 15 weeks pregnant, and the clock was ticking.

Under the guise of protecting her, Kavanaugh argued that her minor status meant it was all the more reasonable to make it harder for her to have an abortion. It’s a strange view, this contention that “she is pregnant and has to make a major life decision,” as Kavanaugh put it — as though having an abortion is more major and life-altering than having a child. In any case, he believed the responsible thing for her to do was to consult an adult and really think about it, as if having an abortion and keeping her life on its existing path was the bad decision and having a child she did not want to carry, birth, or raise would be better.

“It seems to me that when Brett Kavanaugh attempted to deny a 17-year-old immigrant an abortion, he believed that the decisions you make as a minor ought to have lifelong consequences,” tweeted Lauren Duca, who writes a column for Teen Vogue. “Let's treat him the same way.”

There is a theme here, and it’s not just that girls are held to different and wildly inconsistent standards of responsibility compared to boys (although they are). After all, Kavanaugh’s abortion ruling also suggested he believes that a teenage girl was possibly too immature to be treated the same as an adult, the same way his defenders believe whatever he did at 17 is now irrelevant to his fitness for a lifetime judicial appointment.

The overarching theme, though, is that it’s girls in particular who are vehicles for someone else’s needs or desires, and that “responsibility,” for girls and women, hinges on that service. That’s why having a baby before you’re ready is cast as “taking responsibility,” but choosing to safely end a pregnancy is characterized by some as selfish and irresponsible. It’s why adult men are often not expected to take responsibility for mistreating women in their youth — women’s and girls’ bodies are objects of want, mere things onto which men and boys might act out their desires. This is how attempted rape gets cast as teenage hijinks, akin to drinking too much or stealing a car. If a woman says those men or boys crossed a line, well, how were they even to know where the line was? It’s not as though women and girls are autonomous beings, and the lines within which we get to call the shots are drawn by the contours of our skin over our bones.

You can’t separate the view of abortion as both irresponsible and the purview of the government from this equally ugly view of women as tangential accessories to men’s lives — either sex objects or caretakers, and on bad days witchy creatures who become inconvenient when they insist that they get to chart their own course, or that their experience of events describes an attack and not boyish fun that happened years ago anyway and should be forgotten.

If a 17-year-old can be forced by the government to be responsible for carrying a pregnancy to term, surely an adult man can be expected to answer for the choices he is alleged to have made at 17. Kavanaugh says he never assaulted anyone. Some of his defenders say it doesn’t matter if he did, because teenage boys shouldn't necessarily be responsible for bad choices they made when they were younger, and must not have their careers or lives at all impacted by their youthful mistakes. That is, of course, only if they’re white — Donald Trump still insists that the teenagers who made up the exonerated Central Park Five are guilty of rape.

Kavanaugh and men like him have never been held to the same standard of responsibility as Jane Doe, Christine Blasey Ford, and all the women like them. But at the very least, as a potential Supreme Court justice and a grown adult man, Kavanaugh should be responsible to tell the truth — under oath, and after the woman who says he attacked her gets her chance to testify.
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2018 05:59 am
@neptuneblue,
I don't think that 'boys will be boys' and shouldn't be expected to tow the line concerning abstinence, but I think this accusations against Kavanaugh are only coming forward because of efforts to obstruct his appointment to the supreme court. They did not come out when he was a lower court judge.

So it is wrong for women to save these accusations to sell as political ammunition. If you have an issue with someone, approach them about it personally if that's sufficient. If you feel they have perpetrated criminal-level violence against you, file a report with police.

When you wait and save your accusation for the moment they are up for a position where their opposition is recruiting you to come forward as a political weapon, you are selling yourself out as a person with integrity. Your story shouldn't be reduced to political capital, especially when it is being used by the party that protects abortion in order to protect the sex industry, which includes pornography and drug/human trafficking.

Why are 'feminists' calling pro-life a 'war on women' when it is really a war to stop men from having the fantasy of sex without consequences? Women are being horribly bamboozled by the same kind of sweet-talking lies that have always been used to get them into bed; only now it's politicians and 'feminists' recruiting their political support to protect the sex industry against losing abortion as their most effective tool for securing recreational access to women's bodies.
neptuneblue
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2018 07:43 am
@livinglava,
There are reports about the incident prior to Kavanaugh's nomination. However, the claim was dismissed as irrelevent.

It's not any more.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2018 11:29 am
@neptuneblue,
So many people can't see their own hypocrisy and double standard, it's amazing! What I don't understand is how complete strangers wish to impose their religious' beliefs on girls and women. They're just interested in "right to life," but forget about who has to live with that decision. If they're so concerned about human life, what are they doing to feed the starving people of this world? It's not only about food; it's about shelter and healthcare and everything involved in raising a child. Talk is cheap. Hypocrites.
coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2018 11:55 am
@cicerone imposter,
 

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