Poor Kavanaugh wants to run for SC judge

@neptuneblue,

neptuneblue wrote:

Then apparently you don't get the point.

I get the point, which is why I said "I understand the point you're trying to make." IF it's inappropriate when people do that to survivors. It's inappropriate when you do that to someone too.

You could have made the point differently, maybe by saying something like.

Quote:

I'm sorry you had to experience that. I believe you. But the person who you claim did that to you is now running for Supreme Court Justice and what you're claiming happened 30 years ago and you haven't given me any proof. So despite you coming forward, you can't prove anything and I'm still going to vote for the person who did these horrible things to you, and you're going to see pictures of that person all the time from now on. Hope you can handle it.

2 Replies

@maporsche,

Yep, I could have.

But I didn't.

Hope you can handle it.

1 Reply

@neptuneblue,

You’ve lost any moral high ground you think you may have had.

If you think people who do what they did to Ford and other victims are disgusting, you just joined them.

0 Replies

Stand up and be counted.

#metoo

The fight is real.

0 Replies

@neptuneblue,

Please do not use my personal experience on a political thread. I did not want my story to be a part of this discussion. I did not bring it up myself (someone else dragged it in to make a political point). I do not want to talk about this as part of a political argument. I am not going to argue it.

I am asking nicely. I have nothing further to say.

0 Replies

@maporsche,

I don't believe anything Max says. He's a liar, he lied about being a single parent and he lied about me. He said my wife left me when the truth is I'm widowed.

I have no idea what may or may not have happened to Max, but in view of his past lies I take everything he says with a pinch of salt.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

I don't believe anything Max says. He's a liar, he lied about being a single parent and he lied about me. He said my wife left me when the truth is I'm widowed.

I have no idea what may or may not have happened to Max, but in view of his past lies I take everything he says with a pinch of salt.

Very classy.

0 Replies

@maporsche,

Well, I don’t get the point she is trying to make.

Did max level specific or general accusations, that had the potential for destroying their lives, against anyone? Ford did.

I’m not even sure he demanded Ford prove her claims, but based on neptune’s comment, she obviously objects to any such insistence, no matter who expresses it.

Clearly, she is someone who believes that a woman’s uncorroborated accusation is sufficient to establish the guilt of the accused. This is antithetical to American values of justice. It is a wrongheaded and dangerous position, but obviously she is not alone in giving free reign to her id on this (and other) topics.

I believe max, but that’s immaterial. There is absolutely no reasonable “need” for max to “prove” his claim. Neptune only believes there is because she is wed to a fevered anger that has led her to adopt a position that is antithetical to American values of justice and fairness, and has identified max as an enemy of that position (and, absurdly,women)

I’m not sure what Izzy believes other than he must do whatever he can, tell whatever lies he can concoct, to strike out at those he has decided must pay for his misery.

If max had named those he claims abused him as a child, and he has insisted that Ford must prove her accusations, then neptune’s demand would not, at all, be inappropriate. I may not be sure about the latter, but I am certain about the former. Max is a big boy, he isn’t going to fall apart because of possibly insensitive remarks from people who don’t believe him. I’ve no doubt that he is not interested in delving further into the traumas of his past, but if
memories of them, and insensitive comments about them were going to reduce him to a human puddle, he wouldn’t have written about them.

Neptune’s “sin” is not insensitivity, it is incoherence and an illiberal mindset.

Not being “nice” is nothing compared to not supporting the rule of law.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

I do not want my personal story to be in the middle of this political argument. It is not appropriate. I didn't bring it up.

Finn, I appreciate that you are supporting my story, but I don't want my story be used in any side of this political thread. I am not going to argue this... and I don't want anyone to argue on my behalf. Whether anyone believes me is immaterial to this political argument.

Please drop my personal story from this argument. I am leaving this thread... I don't want my personal experience to be used.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Quote:

I love irony. Self-righteous irony is even better.

When you're a victim, all you have is silence.

1 Reply

@neptuneblue,

What Max really loves, like Oralloy, is repeating the same hackneyed phrase over and over again, in the mistaken belief it makes him sound erudite.

The only piece of irony is that he has no concept of what irony actually is.

0 Replies

@Blickers,

Blickers wrote:

oralloy wrote:
Her identity got out because the Democrats leaked it. So they weren't honoring her desire to remain anonymous.
Irrelevant. Dr. Ford did not want to testify, but once her story was leaked she was willing to testify. You overlook the pain a rape or attempted rape survivor goes through when giving evidence, simply brushing it aside as a matter of small importance.

The fact that the Democrats leaked her name proves that the delay in releasing her name was not due to any desire to protect her, and the real reason for the timing was just to cause a needless delay.

Blickers wrote:

You just betrayed yourself. You consider it "pointless" to spend a few weeks investigating whether the Supreme Court nominee you are confirming got on top of a woman forcefully in high school and attempted to rape her while his confederate pinned her arms to the bed.

A youthful indiscretion hardly matters.

And even if they had found something that actually mattered... After Bill Clinton, who cares?

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

The left is awfully hypocritical on this issue.

Bill Clinton's behaviour has been criticized by so many on the left, especially within the context of MeToo, it's hard to take this charge seriously. There are still Democratic partisans stanning for the Clintons on this issue, but they are getting fewer and don't tend to be particularly left-wing.

2 Replies

@oralloy,

Quote oralloy:

Quote:

The fact that the Democrats leaked her name proves that the delay in releasing her name was not due to any desire

Or a Democrat leaked it, but so what? The matter is whether there will be an investigation of perhaps a few weeks where the FBI checks out the new revelation.

Do you agree that many rape victims allow the rapists to go free because they cannot bear to go public, or not?

If you don't agree or think it doesn't matter, then that would be entirely commensurate with the misogyny the conservatives and Republicans have been pushing for a long time.

If you do agree that many rape victims are too crushed by the experience to testify publicly, but this one claimant has agreed to do so, then how can you NOT give a few weeks-well within the power of the committee to grant-to investigate if the Supreme Court nominee attempted vicious violent rape while in high school?

Are you saying Republicans feel that a woman who finally brought herself around to recount an attempted rape by the nominee should be ignored so that the Republicans can have their way? It certainly sounds like it.

1 Reply

@Blickers,

Blickers wrote:

Or a Democrat leaked it, but so what?

So the delay in the leak was not intended to protect her privacy. The only reason for the timing of the leak was to delay the confirmation.

Blickers wrote:

The matter is whether there will be an investigation of perhaps a few weeks where the FBI checks out the new revelation.

If the leaker wanted an investigation, then the leaker should have leaked the information back when there was time to do an investigation.

Blickers wrote:

Do you agree that many rape victims allow the rapists to go free because they cannot bear to go public, or not?

I haven't really thought about it, but it sounds plausible.

Blickers wrote:

If you don't agree or think it doesn't matter, then that would be entirely commensurate with the misogyny the conservatives and Republicans have been pushing for a long time.

Dismissing feminist nuttery is hardly misogyny.

Blickers wrote:

If you do agree that many rape victims are too crushed by the experience to testify publicly, but this one claimant has agreed to do so, then how can you NOT give a few weeks-well within the power of the committee to grant-to investigate if the Supreme Court nominee attempted vicious violent rape while in high school?

Setting aside the fact that a youthful indiscretion hardly disqualifies someone from the Supreme Court, the mere fact that this was sprung at the last second instead of brought up when there was time to conduct an investigation is ample reason to ignore it.

Blickers wrote:

Are you saying Republicans feel that a woman who finally brought herself around to recount an attempted rape by the nominee should be ignored so that the Republicans can have their way? It certainly sounds like it.

I think that responsible adults who have harmed people in their youth should be required to pay civil damages to their victims. So I'm in favor of allowing her to pursue civil damages if she can prove her case.

But it's no reason to prevent Kavanaugh from being on the Supreme Court.

1 Reply

@nimh,

nimh wrote:

Bill Clinton's behaviour has been criticized by so many on the left, especially within the context of MeToo, it's hard to take this charge seriously. There are still Democratic partisans stanning for the Clintons on this issue, but they are getting fewer and don't tend to be particularly left-wing.

Pretending to criticize Bill Clinton after having fought to ensure that he is above the law hardly counts for anything.

The left is just trying to avoid condemnation for their reprehensible positions.

0 Replies

@nimh,

nimh wrote:

maxdancona wrote:

The left is awfully hypocritical on this issue.

Bill Clinton's behaviour has been criticized by so many on the left, especially within the context of MeToo, it's hard to take this charge seriously. There are still Democratic partisans stanning for the Clintons on this issue, but they are getting fewer and don't tend to be particularly left-wing.

Yes, long after he committed his offenses and now that he is not only an impotent figure within the party but someone who (along with his life) Democrats wish would retire from the stage and never be seen again.

To be fair, they did go after one of their own (Al Franken), but that was when #MeToo was white hot. Now that it's cooled a bit see how they have dealt with Keith Ellison.

As well, there is the fact that for a very, very long time Democrats have claimed to be the Party of Women in America and vowed to resist the evil Republicans war on the fairer sex. Considering that claim, don't you think they might be expected to have met higher standards than their misogynist foes, and not take so long to call out Old Bill?

2 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

The problem with these types of arguments about how people in the 90’s weren’t hard enough on the Clintons is that it means almost nothing to anyone under 40 years old.

Most people don’t even get into politics until they’re old enough to vote (or many years later) and any anyone who was old enough to vote for Clinton in 1996 is now 40 years old.

Hold them accountable for their choices then, but that means nothing to most of the energized people today. There are people voting tomorrow who weren’t even alive when Clinton was in the White House.

Do you think they care more about what happened before they were born or what Trump and the Republicans are doing now?

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Considering that claim, don't you think they might be expected to have met higher standards than their misogynist foes, and not take so long to call out Old Bill?

I mean, sure. Like I said, there's a lot of people on the left who look askance at Bill's deeds (and how Hillary addresses them even now) , including me. The whole thing about the MeToo campaign is to not just expose the misdeeds that for far too long were kept under wraps or excused, but to denounce the whole culture around such toxic misbehaviour that minimized it or blamed the women and to demonstrate that especially the new, millennial generation is less likely to silently accept it than its peers were in the 70s, 80s or 90s.

You don't see a lot of young Democrats defending Bill - either he means nothing to them or they consider him a sort of grubby legacy. Maybe I'm naive, but I genuinely don't think that a Democratic President could get away with the kind of stuff Bill did and not lose the sympathy of much of the party's younger and more progressive supporters. Plenty of old-timers left still, of course, but the wider party's culture has moved left on a lot of issues, culturally as well as economically, and that includes things like this. (More minor politicians like Ellison can get away with more because, well, how many young voters even know who he is?)

1 Reply

@nimh,

nimh wrote:

Maybe I'm naive, but I genuinely don't think that a Democratic President could get away with the kind of stuff Bill did and not lose the sympathy of much of the party's younger and more progressive supporters.

The left shifted gears for Bill Clinton and said that sexual misconduct was all right. They'd do the same thing again for any future Democratic president.

0 Replies

Poor Kavanaugh wants to run for SC judge

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know