9
   

Israel is officially an apartheid state

 
 
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 28 Jul, 2018 10:37 am
@livinglava,
Quote:
Jihad is spiritual warfare first and foremost.

That is total bullshit. You have read apologist propaganda. Over 93% of the verses about jihad are related to fighting the enemy.
Quote:
In reading Muslim literature -- both contemporary and classical -- one can see that the evidence for the primacy of spiritual jihad is negligible. Today it is certain that no Muslim, writing in a non-Western language (such as Arabic, Persian, Urdu), would ever make claims that jihad is primarily nonviolent or has been superseded by the spiritual jihad. Such claims are made solely by Western scholars, primarily those who study Sufism and/or work in interfaith dialogue, and by Muslim apologists who are trying to present Islam in the most innocuous manner possible.[17]

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Main_Page
Here is a link to 164 verses concerning jihad.
Quote:
Each of the 164 Jihad verses in this list was selected based on how clearly and directly it spoke about Jihad, at least when considered in its immediate context. Most of the listed passages mention a military expedition, fighting, or distributing war spoils. Verses NOT generally listed are those that speak about aspects of Jihad other than the raiding, fighting and looting, such as:

You have been fooled because many figure Islam is like Christianity or other religions. Islam is not, it is different and its own words show just how hateful and violent it is.
https://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Themes/jihad_passages.html
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 28 Jul, 2018 11:43 am
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/site/img/links-290.jpg
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Sat 28 Jul, 2018 11:44 am
@coldjoint,
The 'bs,' excuse our language, is expecting spiritual warfare to be limited to within an individual's mind and heart without it filtering out into outward behavior. Some people understand this and seek to ban and control religion as a way of controlling violent tendencies in people with moral resolve.

The reality is that humans and even animals can't function without discipline. Liberalism/relativism wrongly assumes that a structure of society can be created where people can do whatever they want and all the harm can be controlled, but this is not possible or realistic to imagine. We are all disciplined in various ways by nature if we aren't first protected from ourselves by family, friends, and/or authorities.

Once upon a time, children were morally disciplined and guided by parents in youth, and this led many people to behave in civilized ways that prevented conflict and violent outbreaks among adults. Nowadays, the world has become more connected and there are some people who are ignorant of their lack of discipline and the effect this has on others around the world. The same discipline that prevents someone from stealing also makes them angry when they see others stealing.

Think about the new testament stories of forgiveness and mercy. There were instances where people were getting ready to stone sinners to death and Jesus implored them to forgive them and allow them to live. Those people who were ready to stone the sinner were not terrible people but rather good people who get very VERY angry at other people for not being good.

You should realize that this is a general aspect of human existence. It is the reason so many people hate Trump, for example, i.e. because they think they are good people and he is bad in ways that they can't forgive. Some people want to impeach Trump and others probably wouldn't mind stoning him and such people are not any different than any muslim or other person who forgets that they are also a sinner and that forgiveness and mercy are bestowed on them as much as they should grant it to others.

Islam indeed honors God as 'most merciful' and honors Jesus as a prophet, so you can't accuse Islam of being against mercy and forgiveness. Whatever violence it is you are focusing on thus must be do to human weakness and not to the essential spirit of the religion. You can't take the human weaknesses and imperfections of religious followers to define the essence of the religion. What's more, when you find yourself to be superior to other people who fail morally, you are denying your own sinful nature, which is the same sin of pride that leads violent muslims or anyone else who's violent into violence. The moment you start claiming moral superiority to others, you are failing morally, so if you want to give yourself to the sin of pride in this way, that's your choice, but realize you're going down the same evil path as anyone you decry as violent.
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jul, 2018 11:47 am
@coldjoint,
The problem is you assume this murderer is a true Muslim believer because 'Jihad' is in his name. If some murderer wears a cross and starts a war and the people he starts a war with decide that all Christians are violent and evil and should be killed, where does the evil stop and the righteousness begin?
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 28 Jul, 2018 12:04 pm
@livinglava,
Quote:
The problem is you assume

I am assuming nothing. Read what the true Muslim is, that is Muhammad. What he said and did is what a Muslim man should aspire to. I have already explained that. It is the truth. If you can't accept that when it is proven in Islams own words you are being willfully ignorant.
livinglava
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jul, 2018 12:14 pm
@coldjoint,
You are misunderstanding the nuances of religion. These same nuances are in the old testament, where violence is legitimated but ultimately the purpose is moral/spiritual reform.

Really I think what your argument boils down to is that you want to demonize everyone who claims Islam as their religion. That is wrong and prejudiced/racist. I understand things like national borders and travel bans as security precautions, but that is different than judging/condemning everyone who believes in a certain religion merely because of what they believe and not based on their personal actions as individuals.
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 28 Jul, 2018 12:27 pm
@livinglava,
Quote:
You are misunderstanding the nuances of religion.

Nuance, my ass. Islam is to be taken literally, it says so in the Koran. The Koran is unchangeable and also says those who attach different meanings to what is written will be doomed to eternal punishment. They are considered hypocrites and can be killed with no penalty under Sharia.

What you hear and apparently read are apologies and lies. You have every opportunity to see what the real sources(Koran and Hadith) say. Start reading.

Quote:
The short answer to this question is that it is literal and metaphorical where Allah Ta’ala explicitly states it.

This an Islamic site.
https://invitationtotruth.wordpress.com/2010/11/17/is-quran-literal-or-metaphorical/
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 28 Jul, 2018 12:46 pm
@livinglava,

Quote:
Really I think what your argument boils down to is that you want to demonize everyone who claims Islam as their religion.

I do not talk about Muslims. I talk about Islam. There is no racism involved. And I do not know why you consider stating the truth about Islam, facts I can back up, prejudiced?

I stress what the religion says. To say Islam does not teach hate or create monsters would be lying. It goes, or should go, without saying it is not all Muslims.
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Sat 28 Jul, 2018 02:52 pm
@coldjoint,
Then go on fighting Islam and see if it leads you to heaven or hell. I can't explain how it works to you.
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 28 Jul, 2018 05:16 pm
@livinglava,
Quote:
I can't explain how it works to you.

That is an understatement. Islam explains itself clearly.
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Sat 28 Jul, 2018 05:24 pm
@coldjoint,
Why do you supposed Israel didn't ban all muslims from the establishment of the nation, then?
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 28 Jul, 2018 05:28 pm
@livinglava,
Quote:
Why do you supposed Israel didn't ban all muslims from the establishment of the nation, then?

Because not all Muslims are terrorists. And have made in roads for 1400 years.
Israel lives by mans law.
glitterbag
 
  3  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2018 01:52 am
@coldjoint,
Well, that’s a big switch for coldjoint.
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2018 05:14 am
@glitterbag,
The new nation-state law has given members of "Israel's model minority" the feeling they've been betrayed: one (Druze) member of Knesset from the Zionist Union resigned already over the Nation-State Law, Druzes in the armed forces and police say 'When we’re in uniform, they treat us well' [Druze Arabs are subject to the military draft] ...

Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2018 08:39 am
@coldjoint,
Ok, so now we're back to the question of how to protect Jewish culture against global anti-Jewish majoritarianism/fascism and whether Jewish nationalism is the only possible solution or if there are other possibilities.
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2018 10:40 am
@livinglava,
Quote:
how to protect Jewish culture

Israel has that covered.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2018 10:47 am
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:
Quote:
how to protect Jewish culture

Israel has that covered.
The diaspora as the defining form of existence of Judaism has long contributed to the maintenance of the unity of Jewish religion and Jewish culture.

Thus the Jewish tradition that Jewish culture is ubiquitous.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2018 10:55 am
Yes, that's done in every sovereign country (and not sovereign state as well).
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2018 11:02 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Yes, that's done in every sovereign country

Really? What is Germany's problem? Why allow Islam to challenge and ignore your laws? Why allow over 10,000 Salafists to live in your country?
Quote:
Number of Radical Islamic Salafists Tops 10,000 in Germany for the First Time

https://www.breitbart.com/london/2018/07/25/number-radical-islamic-salafists-tops-10000-germany-first-time/
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2018 11:32 am
@coldjoint,
I just read a NYTimes article about new Jewish neighborhoods forming in Paris because of people wanting to escape harassment they attribute to Muslims (they didn't use the word ghetto, btw). Some Muslims interviewed said that Jews were just moving to better neighborhoods because of financial success. A violent attack against a Jewish family was described in which the attacker is quoted as saying something about Jews keeping money in banks.

To me this all just sounds like the same ideas that are associated with the nazi era. This is class warfare being portrayed as religious conflict. I think part of the reason is because white Europeans don't want to be implicated in nazism so the blame goes to Muslims, because European nazis hate them as much as they did Jews.

Anti-Semitism is racism against middle-eastern people that goes back to the middle ages. The crusades are an example, and there was always hate for Jews as well (it didn't start with Hitler). So probably this anti-Semitic culture is simmering but they are trying to keep it quiet by blaming it on Muslims and averting another situation where European whites are regarded as nazis, while at the same time demonizing Muslims so they can justify more oppressive treatment of them, or at least those that don't fall into line with what is expected of them.

Europe is divided into nations precisely because violence and hatred result in a culture of separatism and conflict. The formation of Jewish and Muslim nation-states are part of this long tradition of fencing people off into pens and keeping them in conflict in order to exploit it economically. I don't think there is any single national/ethnic/religious group to blame for this. It is a cultural movement unto itself; one that is extremely powerful and divisive precisely because it derives power from dividing people against each other.
 

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