Progressives (Liberals)

Quote:

For Sanders, there is no certainty that Michigan will provide a repeat of the lift he received in 2016, when he narrowly defeated former secretary of state Hillary Clinton in a similar one-on-one faceoff by attacking her past support for the North American Free Trade Agreement and her vote to authorize the 2003 Iraq War.

Sanders is now attacking Biden on those same grounds and others, as he tests whether he can turn out a coalition he has promised will remake the Democratic Party and defeat Trump in the fall — but which has shown up in only a limited way so far. The demographics of Michigan, with a large Muslim population, a core of working-class white voters, a significant college-age voting bloc and an African American community with close ties to organized labor, provide a unique backdrop to test Sanders’s vision.

“It’s not do-or-die mathematically. But I do think it is a chance to show just how outraged voters in swing states can get about Joe Biden’s record,” Sanders campaign spokesman Bill Neidhardt said. “I think Joe is going to have a problem. We are going to try to make sure he has a problem.”

But the former vice president’s allies say the state’s politics have changed dramatically over the past four years, following the trauma of Clinton’s general-election loss and a banner 2018 election that ushered in a new set of moderate Democrats across the state. Those victories were driven by increased turnout for Democrats in college-educated communities around the state, propelling candidates like now-Gov. Gretchen Whitmer to a nine-percentage-point victory. Whitmer endorsed Biden on Thursday and became a co-chair of his campaign.

“Joe Biden is the one who is running on the blueprint that we ran on in 2018,” Whitmer said in an interview Friday alongside Lt. Gov. Garlin Gilchrist II. “As I look to the fall, Joe Biden’s message is one that I know will resonate across the state.”

WP

1 Reply

@blatham,

blatham wrote:

Quote:
Chris Hayes
@chrislhayes

sociopathic and dangerous. https://twitter.com/AP/status/1236476457494417408

It is encouraging to see more and more people not shying away from this apt descriptor for Trump.

You should say less and less, not more an more. It must hurt the cheese-eaters to lose so armchair psychologists, eh? Their input in invaluable to the cause of the "resistance."

If you want to say he's an egomaniac, then sure. But name a presidential candidate who isn't, ultimately.

As Plato said, centuries ago, (paraphrasing): "Anyone who wants to be president aint qualified for the job."

1 Reply

@blatham,

Quote:

The consensus for Clinton must have looked rather formidable to him. It might be understandable that he'd begin to conflate everything into a singular entity.

Perhaps or perhaps it is just the way he is, to attribute failure to some big conspiracy against him.

1 Reply

@layman,

Old news. I personally came away from that thought a long time ago. She would have to be nuts to carry such a complex scheme for so long. I don't think she is nuts. In my opinion, she just has carried over some of her former feelings for democrats into her support for "progressives." AOC is s progressive, yet she does not espouse the same kind venom as Lash does.

1 Reply

@Lash,

Quote:

Just in case one person here is interested in facts.

Hillary Kissinger Clinton
she was afraid to cross Clinton

Those aren't facts.

2 Replies

@revelette3,

Venom=disagreeing with resident Centrists

1 Reply

@revelette3,

I early-voted for Sanders. So he's going to get at least one vote in Michigan.

I almost crossed party lines and voted for Trump in the Republican primary, but I figured there is a small chance that Sanders is less-bad than Biden on gun control. And he certainly can't be any worse than Biden on gun control.

0 Replies

@blatham,

Facts I hyperbolized a tad

1. Clinton’s views are considered quite righty by progressives
2. The Clintons are/were the power in the Dem party for decades.

1 Reply

@Lash,

Quote:

Centrists deny the establishment is at war with Bernie’s campaign.

Just because people reject the overly dramatic description of "war" doesn't mean they're "centrists".

Quote:

Progressives know it to be a fact.

You don't get to speak for the entire left wing of the party. At most, some of the Sanders supporters feel this way and some Sanders supporters don't. If your candidate shows that he clearly has the support of the majority of voters in the primaries the party will back him. His showing last Tuesday demonstrated that his support may not be as widespread as the earlier results in Iowa and NH had led many to believe. So instead of trying to frame the contest as a "war" why not wait until more voters have had a say? The whole idea is to choose the candidate with the broadest appeal.

2 Replies

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/494945/

Excerpt
“Henry Kissinger is an architect of war,” said Winnie Wong, a co-founder of The People for Bernie Sanders. “That Hillary Clinton is purportedly courting an endorsement from him speaks volumes about her future foreign-policy plans for the United States. Progressives want peace. This is not peace.”

Dan Froomkin of The Intercept summed up hostility toward Kissinger in February. “Kissinger is reviled by many left-leaning observers of foreign policy,” he wrote, “They consider him an amoral egotist who enabled dictators, extended the Vietnam War, laid the path to the Khmer Rouge killing fields, stage-managed a genocide in East Timor, overthrew the democratically elected left-wing government in Chile, and encouraged Nixon to wiretap his political adversaries.”

Clinton’s foreign-policy record has haunted her in the past. During the 2008 election, Obama attacked Clinton for her support of the Iraq War, and emphasized his own opposition to the war during his ultimately successful primary campaign. Now, however, Clinton seems to believe an emphasis on national security will resonate with undecided voters, even if it doesn’t sit well with progressives

_________________________
Frame it however they will, progressives would never Court these people. Their entire approach to foreign policy is different.

0 Replies

@layman,

layman wrote:

I don't plan to get involved here any further. By and large it's just a complete waste of time.

1 Reply

@hightor,

hightor wrote:

You don't get to speak for the entire left wing of the party. At most, some of the Sanders supporters feel this way and some Sanders supporters don't.

Incorrect. Anyone who has spent three weeks of the last five years as a legitimate, engaged Bernie voter has seen and knows without a doubt that he has been treated with undeniable uniform bias by the MSM.

We do speak as one voice on this subject. You see it, and you say it.

1 Reply

@blatham,

blatham wrote:

Hillary Kissinger Clinton
she was afraid to cross Clinton

Those aren't facts.

Wrong. The first statement is true.

And in my opinion that truth is a good thing. My opposition to Hillary had to do with gun control, not with foreign policy. I think Hillary would have had an excellent foreign policy.

As for my views on Henry Kissinger:
https://able2know.org/topic/546088-1

I can't speak to the nature of the second statement.

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@hightor,

Thanks for the reminder, Hi. I find myself with a little spare time on a week-end let myself get partially sucked back into this insanity.

Time to get out an do some fishing.

1 Reply

@revelette3,

Quote:

Perhaps or perhaps it is just the way he is, to attribute failure to some big conspiracy against him.

It is a possibility that his personality has this feature. But I'm not prepared to assume it is true.

Trump's version of populism is completely fraudulent in that he utilizes emotional buttons and responses for purposes that that have no relationship to what will help his intended audience. He really doesn't give a **** about others.

Sanders is not the same sort of person. I have every reason to believe he is sincere in what he wishes for citizens. I see him as a legit lefty populist.

That said, his tendencies to envision opposition to him or disagreement with his apparent notions of his electability as always a consequence of 'establishment' maneuvers look rather paranoid to me. And they are unnecessarily divisive. He frames the "enemy" most immediately as the Dem party. I think that's an electoral strategy, but a bad one. Warren, on the other hand, directed her attention more acutely at those who actively seek to manipulate both parties to maintain/increase power and wealth.

Says me.

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@Lash,

Quote:

1. Clinton’s views are considered quite righty by progressives

I know. And most of us here would agree.

Quote:

2. The Clintons are/were the power in the Dem party for decades.

Also true. But it would be false to suggest that no good came from this even if the proportion wasn't as large as we'd hope.

0 Replies

@layman,

0 Replies

One parting pronouncement. It's a well-known, stone-cold fact which really doesn't need repeating, but....

Trump, he ROCKS, eh!?

1 Reply

@Lash,

Quote:

Anyone who has spent three weeks of the last five years as a legitimate, engaged Bernie voter has seen and knows without a doubt that he has been treated with undeniable uniform bias by the MSM

So you admit it, you're talking as a Sanders supporter and don't speak for all self-described "progressives".

You know, just running for office doesn't mean that you get uncritical acceptance from the Fourth Estate. If someone mounts a campaign which is determined to play up every difference between his political philosophy and that of the party traditionalists there is bound to be a response and some degree of counter-attack. The press has a duty to report this. It's not up to the press to make the candidate look non-threatening and paint his insurgency as something positive.

1 Reply

This sort of thing is soooo stupid

Quote:

Dante Atkins🕷
@DanteAtkins
10h
Really sad watching AOC being lit up by Bernie people for liking Warren dancing on SNL. Just read the replies. They seem to have forgotten the fact that she's pretty much wholly responsible for him outlasting Warren in the progressive lane to begin with.

However it has happened, there is a vicious Gamergate contingent in this crowd (though some will be trolls, for sure). Resistance to coalition and compromise is highly destructive. Stupid as hell. Hardly likely to encourage Warren to endorse Bernie. Just the opposite.

1 Reply

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