Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Mar, 2020 11:58 am
@blatham,
On the contrary, examples abound. The centrists have dished out much contempt on social media and the press. The idea that bernites are uniquely responsible for the bad blood between them and centrist is pretty absurd.
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Thu 5 Mar, 2020 12:09 pm
I mentioned this movie (a personal favorite) on Hangar's Pandemic Event thread:

Quote:
In this suspenseful melodrama, a bullet-ridden corpse turns up in the water off the New Orleans docks. To the police, he’s a John Doe...until a public health doctor discovers he carries a virulent strain of bubonic plague. Hundreds of officers are mobilized to track down the killers and all who had contact with the dead man in a desperate race against the clock before the highly contagious disease spreads far beyond the port area and puts the entire country in peril.


Here's the exciting trailer!



Any film with Jack Palance is worth viewing!
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Mar, 2020 12:18 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
The idea that bernites are uniquely responsible for the bad blood between them and centrist is pretty absurd.

Sure. But none of the people I read (lots) make that claim. Preponderance, yes, that claim is made. I don't think Sirota has a counterpart in any other campaign.

But again I'll point out that this "war" is one that the bad players (I don't mean Sanders' team) are fomenting to reduce Dem voting. It's not a discussion I'm much interested in because it is destructive.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Mar, 2020 12:20 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
Any film with Jack Palance is worth viewing!

Not to mention any Academy Awards shows where he does one-arm push ups.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Thu 5 Mar, 2020 12:30 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
The idea that bernites are uniquely responsible for the bad blood between them and centrist is pretty absurd.

None of the other candidates had anything comparable to the online Bernard Sanders Brotherhood© and I think that's where a lot of the bad blood originated, as early as '16.

Now, as far as the mainstream press and its treatment of him; when a politician takes a position which is on the far end of the conventional political spectrum and insinuates that everyone else is either corrupt, a warmonger, or a dupe, and to preserve ideological purity, works alone in self-imposed political isolation, accomplishing little other than authoring role call amendments and provided great late night CNN videos of him addressing an empty House chamber and railing against capitalism — well in the USA, this is considered a bit eccentric. I could see why he might have been disregarded, ignored, or belittled. But I don't recall him ever being "hated" — just dealt with as an outsider. Which is how he chose to present himself.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Mar, 2020 12:35 pm
@blatham,
You got me googling and landing here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/stories/quinn110298.htm



In Washington, That Letdown Feeling
By Sally Quinn
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, November 2, 1998; Page E01

"This beautiful capital," President Clinton said in his first inaugural address, "is often a place of intrigue and calculation. Powerful people maneuver for position and worry endlessly about who is in and who is out, who is up and who is down, forgetting those people whose toil and sweat sends us here and pays our way." With that, the new president sent a clear challenge to an already suspicious Washington Establishment.
...

So Bill Clinton came to Washington as a disrupter. Interesting.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Mar, 2020 12:57 pm
@Olivier5,
Quinn is the classic example of a NY/DC media/politics insider. She was famous for hosting parties where the top news and political celebrities would gather. She was married to Bill Bradlee.

I don't have a good grip on exactly how this perception of the Clintons evolved in that crowd. He was from the south and he had a low status upbringing but he was very smart and got himself well educated and was a highly charismatic politician. His politics were not bizarre or much out of the norm. But they (many of them) came to see the Clintons as interlopers. I really think it was a social class prejudice.

If anyone has a better grip on this question, please share.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Mar, 2020 01:00 pm
Goodness. Just looking at figures from 2016 primaries and this year. Warren gained 86.1% of the votes in Vermont's 2016 primary but that fell this year all the way to 50.7%. That's Vermont!
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Mar, 2020 01:03 pm
@blatham,
Well, if that's how they took Clinton, try and imagine their take on Sanders.
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Mar, 2020 01:08 pm
Bernie won 4 or 5 states in 2016 that were caucus states, but those switched to primary system for 2020 and he got trounced.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 5 Mar, 2020 01:10 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:
The Nazi comparison was, of course, idiotic.

There is nothing idiotic about calling out neonazis when they make horrendous false accusations against Israel.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Mar, 2020 01:12 pm
@hightor,
In 2016 I ended up opting out of a2k political threads because of the treatment I was subjected to, as a pro-Bernie poster, by three regular clintonians. I think of myself as a pretty tough guy but I couldn't take it anymore.

It's not my country anyway. Nations have the leaders they deserve, they say.

But you know, it's like boxing: a fighter can only feel his own pain.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 5 Mar, 2020 01:15 pm
@Olivier5,
I know the feeling. I'm still voting for Republicans in every single race in every single general election because of the treatment that I was subjected to in 2008.

I even track down information as to which judicial candidates are backed by the Republicans (such information is not on the ballot) and make sure to vote for the Republican judges.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 5 Mar, 2020 01:16 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
Of course, the witch-hunt meme is a witless contention, because a Republican-controlled Congress initiated the investigation.

That is incorrect. The investigation was not initiated by Congress. Initiating investigations is an executive-branch function.

But the investigation was initiated because of pressure from prominent Democrats.


Setanta wrote:
The irony is that the classic first operational move when fascists take over is the elimination of political opposition. After the passage of the Reichstag Fire Act and the Enabling Act, in 1933, the Nazis outlawed all other parties. Oralloy would like to see that here.

That is incorrect. "Wanting a single highly-abusive party to be outlawed as a direct response to their outrageous abuses" is not in any way "wanting to outlaw all other parties."
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Mar, 2020 01:17 pm
If you hadn't figured it out already, getting out the vote and re-taking the Senate is IMPORTANT
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell is threatening to kill popular legislation and policies if voters elect a Democratic president in the 2020 election.

"If I'm still the majority leader in the Senate [in 2020], think of me as the Grim Reaper," McConnell told voters in Owensboro, Kentucky, on Monday. "None of that stuff is going to pass."

That stuff McConnell is so eager to kill? Popular progressive ideas like the Green New Deal and Medicare for All, which would help to clean up the environment and provide even more access to affordable health care. Even if voters reject Trump and the Republican agenda in 2020, McConnell is determined to do what he wants rather than what the voters want.

"I guarantee you that if I'm the last man standing and I'm still the majority leader, it ain't happening," he said. "I can promise you." LINK
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Mar, 2020 01:18 pm
@Olivier5,
A different set of social dynamics but disruption is a concern in both, you bet.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 5 Mar, 2020 01:24 pm
@revelette3,
revelette3 wrote:
I have noticed a lot of people seem to be condescending towards the black vote, talking about undue influence all the time.

There's no point in reaching out to them. They will just attack you if you try.

I don't know if that qualifies as condescension, but most people have better things to do than waste their time reaching out to people who will only attack them.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 5 Mar, 2020 01:25 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
I guess it boils down to whether Democrats favor democratic socialism and are willing to risk a second Trump administration in its pursuit or prefer a more inclusive and gradualist message.

Actually I think Trump would have an easier time beating Biden than Sanders, although I think he will beat either of them.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Thu 5 Mar, 2020 01:28 pm
Quote:
NYT Politics
@nytpolitics
Virginia saw record-breaking turnout on Super Tuesday: 1.3 million voters went to the polls, surpassing the votes cast in 2016 by nearly 70% and breaking a previous Democratic record of 986,000 set in 2008, when Barack Obama was on the ballot
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Reply Thu 5 Mar, 2020 02:31 pm
@blatham,
WaPo's The Fix: Where will Warren’s supporters swing?
Quote:
Exit polls show Warren and Sanders voters are very similar, with one big exception

Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) ended her campaign Thursday after failing to get first or second place in any Super Tuesday states. The critical question going forward is where her supporters will swing.

Warren won 13 percent of all Super Tuesday votes tallied so far. That’s two times former vice president Joe Biden’s margin of victory in popular support over Sen. Bernie Sanders (6.4 percentage points).

Exit poll data indicates Sanders (I-Vt.) is the most natural beneficiary of Warren’s decision to end her campaign. Among her top five groups across Super Tuesday states, Warren’s median support peaked at 19 percent of “very liberal voters,” 17 percent among those ages 30-44 and 16 percent among voters with a favorable view of socialism.

Each of these groups was also among Sanders’s strongest five groups, too — he won a median of 49 percent of very liberal voters, 41 percent of 30- to 44-year-olds and 41 percent of those who are positive toward socialism.

Warren supporters are also significantly more favorable toward socialism than Democrats overall, a key indicator of openness to supporting Sanders, who identifies as a democratic socialist. Across five Super Tuesday states that asked this question and had enough interviews with Warren supporters for reliable data, a median of 73 percent of Warren voters said they were favorable toward socialism, 20 points higher than the 53 percent of Democratic voters overall who said the same.

That finding was fairly consistent across states — in Texas, for instance, 72 percent of Warren voters had a favorable view of socialism compared with 56 percent of Democratic primary voters overall.

Looking at how Warren backers rate Sanders and Biden directly, Warren’s supporters were far more positive toward Sanders than Biden in California, the only state with enough data to analyze this question. A 73 percent majority of Warren voters in California had a favorable view of Sanders, compared with 52 percent who were favorable toward Biden.

One significant schism between Warren and Sanders supporters is education. College graduates were one of Warren’s top five groups, and she won a median of 17 percent support with them, compared with 7 percent among voters without college degrees. By contrast, Sanders performed eight percentage points better with non-college graduates (33 percent) than he did with college grads (25 percent). Biden had similar support among these two groups across Super Tuesday states, winning a median of 34 percent among college graduates compared with 38 percent among those without college degrees.

It’s unclear how much college graduates’ greater support for Warren represented enthusiasm for her candidacy or aversion to Sanders or Biden, and that question will be critical to which candidate this group decides to vote for in coming contests. Next week’s five primaries in Idaho, Michigan, Missouri, Mississippi and Washington will be key test of whether Sanders can consolidate support among Warren backers who are clearly closer to him on ideological grounds.

 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.11 seconds on 10/01/2024 at 03:25:33