Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2020 07:19 am
@oralloy,
He could impose capitalist Enron style rolling blackouts.
revelette3
 
  3  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2020 08:36 am
Unless something changes, Sanders will be the Democrat nominee for the general election of 2020. He may, in fact, become President. I think it is a mistake for Democrats to follow him, he is too extreme. I also think he will hurt the contenders in down ballots who are in far less progressive districts than it appears the Democrats are headed. However, voters think differently. No sense going on about it. So, I guess, I'll just be a watcher to see how the drama will eventually unfold.

If he actually becomes the next President, it will be even more interesting to find out if he can accomplish any of the multitudes of free and tax-funded plans he has promised to bring about. If he does, we all benefit, if nothing gets accomplished at least we don't have a crazy crook at the WH.
snood
 
  3  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2020 08:39 am
@revelette3,
Are you at all curious about how he will handle it if Mitch McConnell is still there squashing every democratic proposal?
revelette3
 
  2  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2020 09:37 am
@snood,
I am pretty sure I know how it will go, the same way it went with Obama's policy proposals. Or it could be even going worse, depending on the status of how many seats we have in each house. They claim he could use a dozen executive orders. Obama did that in the end after he finally realized trying to compromise with them got him quickly nowhere. On some of them, republicans took him to court and they got reversed, the rest Trump undid. With the courts now stacked against liberal/progressives/democrats, I don't see much lasting progress if any is achieved at all.

I could see the same playing out no matter which democrat (or independent playing a democrat) ends up as President. Unless it is a very conservative Democrat. It's the price we have to pay until we get more judges on our side. Everything is dirty politics including our courts.
snood
 
  2  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2020 09:59 am
@revelette3,
Or until we get the Senate. I agree with you. It’s just surprising to me that when Bernie goes on and on about the momentous changes he intends to make, no one seems to press him about “how”.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2020 09:59 am
@revelette3,
Quote:
On some of them, republicans took him to court and they got reversed, the rest Trump undid.

Executive orders are nothing more than a cruel joke, a lame excuse for actual legislation. With the recent example of Obama's executive orders being reversed almost immediately upon Trump's arrival in the White House, the idea that these orders would be seriously considered shows a perilous lack of strategic political thinking. There's no substitute for having control of the legislative branch.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2020 10:27 am
The Dow Jones Industrial Average is set to open down more than 800 points on Monday, as stock prices all over the world are falling due to increased fear about the economic impact of coronavirus.
As I noted earlier, this outbreak seems very likely to have some significant electoral consequences.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2020 10:47 am
@revelette3,
revelette3 wrote:

Unless something changes, Sanders will be the Democrat nominee for the general election of 2020. He may, in fact, become President. I think it is a mistake for Democrats to follow him, he is too extreme. I also think he will hurt the contenders in down ballots who are in far less progressive districts than it appears the Democrats are headed. However, voters think differently. No sense going on about it. So, I guess, I'll just be a watcher to see how the drama will eventually unfold.

An interesting insight here that hadn't occurred to me. I believe a Sanders Nomination will indeed mobilize other voters to vote for a Republican Congress to prevent the possible enactment of any material elements of his sophomoric, socialist paradise - and in sufficient numbers to ensure that outcome.
Another reassuring element of this is that Bernie has so far carefully avoided efforts to explain how his legislative program would work or be constructed. Apart from vagaries about equality and wealth transfers he has said very little, very likely because he doesn't understand how a productive economy works, and, like most socialists, he resists thinking about the side effects of his formula on human behavior. He has decades of experience in the Congress, but nothing in it suggests he has the talent and acumen to put together a winning legislative program in the Congress.

Sanders' largely unexpected win in the Nevada primary is certainly a satisfying moment for his ardent supporters, and it is also a likely indicator of better-than-expected performance in the remaining primaries. It will also likely mobilize his opposition within the Party, and, in my view, it is still early to assume Bloomberg is not a very serious contender. With Biden fading and Sanders on the ascent, the forthcoming (next week) South Carolina Primary results may offer further near-term surprises. In about three weeks we'll all likely know what to expect after the two large batches of Primaries on March 2 and 10.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2020 11:26 am
@blatham,
Oh for the love of god
Quote:
Fox Business host Charles Payne blames much of today's Dow plunge on Bernie Sanders' Nevada win:

"The Bernie factor is finally rearing its head in the stock market...there's absolutely no doubt."

Appropriate cynical conclusion: America deserves to collapse.
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2020 11:35 am
@blatham,
Quote:
America deserves to collapse.

Every other free nation collapses with us. Including Canada.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2020 11:45 am
@blatham,
What the hell is cynical about it? Do you believe that most capitalist stock & equities markets welcome socialist rule? If so please present your evidence for it.

My opinion is that fears generated by the corona virus are likely a greater factor in today's continued decline, however the added factor of Sander's largely unexpectedly strong showing in the Nevada primary almost certainly contributed to it. The market is down about 3% from last week's high, but that's well within the volatility range for the current year,

I believe that any real indication of a Sanders Presidency would have a much greater effect on the markets and general expectations for our economy than what we have seen so far.

Do you really believe Payne's comments demonstrate an impending collapse of this country or that it is deserved?
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2020 11:58 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
World Economy Shudders as Coronavirus Threatens Global Supply Chains
Wall Street Journal

Quote:
Do you really believe Payne's comments demonstrate an impending collapse of this country or that it is deserved?
You really can be obtuse, george. What Fox is up to here is its typical disinformation which Americans like yourself are so awash in you can't see through it or past it. It's turning American into a shithole country and the republic is very probably not going to be salvageable.

georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2020 12:03 pm
@blatham,
You have been putting that stuff out for years, but none of it has materialized.

We'll be OK.
blatham
 
  4  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2020 12:05 pm
Quote:
Exclusive: Trump's "Deep State" hit list

The Trump White House and its allies, over the past 18 months, assembled detailed lists of disloyal government officials to oust — and trusted pro-Trump people to replace them — according to more than a dozen sources familiar with the effort who spoke to Axios.

Driving the news: By the time President Trump instructed his 29-year-old former body man and new head of presidential personnel to rid his government of anti-Trump officials, he'd gathered reams of material to support his suspicions.

While Trump's distrust has only intensified since his impeachment and acquittal, he has long been on the hunt for "bad people" inside the White House and U.S. government, and fresh "pro-Trump" options. Outside advisers have been happy to oblige.
In reporting this story, I have been briefed on, or reviewed, memos and lists the president received since 2018 suggesting whom he should hire and fire. Most of these details have never been published.

A well-connected network of conservative activists with close ties to Trump and top administration officials is quietly helping develop these "Never Trump"/pro-Trump lists, and some sent memos to Trump to shape his views, per sources with direct knowledge.
Members of this network include Ginni Thomas, the wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, and Republican Senate staffer Barbara Ledeen.

The big picture: Since Trump's Senate acquittal, aides say the president has crossed a psychological line regarding what he calls the "Deep State." He feels his government — from Justice to State to Defense to Homeland Security — is filled with "snakes." He wants them fired and replaced ASAP...
Axios - much more here

Barbara Ledeen is neoconservative lunatic Michael Ledeen's wife.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2020 12:20 pm
@blatham,
Quote:
Exclusive: Trump's "Deep State" hit list

It is past time to do that. I am very glad it is finally happening.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2020 12:51 pm
@blatham,
I believe there is ample and already well publicized evidence of a widespread antagonism for Trump among the various departments of the Government. There are a number of contributing factors to it. The first and I believe most prominent is that Trump failed to bring in a large cadre of political appointments to the various 2nd and 3rd levels in most Federal Agencies as have done almost all Presidents very soon after their elections. Previously Ambassadors, Undersecretaries in most departments and most of the White House staff were replaced in wholesale turnovers within days after the Inauguration of a new president. That Trump failed to do this was a serious error on his part, one I suspect resulting in part from the fact that, as an unexpected candidate, without prior political or Washington government experience, he didn't have an established network of loyalists appointees ready top take over the Executive organs of government.

Even so he had ample reason and time to do some of this later on. I also suspect the political temper of the times and the then ongoing Mueller Investigation was an inhibiting factor here as well- certainly any actions he might then have taken to replace staff needing it was treated as further evidence of malfeasance on h's part by his many critics and the media. Lastly, by virtue of his decidedly anti establishment views and brusque, sometimes crude manner he was never a very sympathetic or attractive figure to the drones who inhabit the Federal Bureaucracies. Indeed many of his pronouncements and actions as President were a direct threat to the administrative power many of them wielded. The main focus of such bureaucrats is preservation and expansion of their power and reach in the government, and Trump by his manner and declared policies was very clearly a direct threat to their continued power.

I believe a culling of most of our Federal Bureaucracies is long overdue. Trump has done this with a few agencies (the VA is an example) but much more is needed.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2020 12:55 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
...but none of it has materialized.

Be patient.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2020 01:04 pm
@hightor,
Well... it's possible Sanders could win the Presidency, but I expect we'll avoid that one.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2020 01:13 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
...but none of it has materialized.


Be patient.

I doubt even patience will bear fruit. Gradualism, of the lobster-in-slowly-to-boil water, is in play here. What's happening now has many precursors. That and a subscription to a particular version of the American myth story, of course.

If we imagine a Sanders government, say, where he takes over and he appoints a cadre of ideological purity testers to deeply survey all personnel in all government posts with recommendations who to fire or move to posts of little consequence and then proceeds to purge every one who has spoken against him or in favor of right wing policies/personnel and then replaces them replaces them with loyalists only regardless of knowledge, background, skills, etc... just imagine how george would think about that.
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2020 01:17 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

If we imagine a Sanders government, say, where he takes over and he appoints a cadre of ideological purity testers to deeply survey all personnel in all government posts with recommendations who to fire or move to posts of little consequence and then proceeds to purge every one who has spoken against him or in favor of right wing policies/personnel and then replaces them replaces them with loyalists only regardless of knowledge, background, skills, etc... just imagine how george would think about that.

Very little new there. Nearly every President since Roosevelt has done the same. Trump is the exception to the rule.
 

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