Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 01:57 pm
@hightor,
Thanks for a very good piece.

Quote:
That moment of truth leaves the reader “staring into space, the void opening at her feet.”

What could possibly be done about it? You'd need a revolution to do away with the electoral college. I suppose parties can get rid of state caucusses...
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 02:43 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
Days ago, results of Sanders’ canvassing began to be apparent; months ago, touted as a Biden stronghold.

"Months ago" is history and not that significant in a modern political campaign. We're at that page of the calendar where the pace of change quickens considerably, now that people are casting actual votes, as opposed to us having to rely on a slew of conflicting opinion polls. Piles of money are being spent, too.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 02:49 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
I do find it a bit amazing that, so soon after the unlamented 20th century, which provided so many examples of the loss of freedom and poverty that results from their application, these ideas are so easily accepted by so many.

Yes, I hear Denmark is a horrible, destitute, wretched place to live.
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 03:00 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
Yes, I hear Denmark is a horrible, destitute, wretched place to live.

Quote:
Converting Denmark into a Muslim Country

That from 2012. Do you think it is getting better? You can have Denmark.
Quote:
Muslim immigrants in a town near Copenhagen have forced the cancellation of traditional Christmas displays this year even while spending lavishly on the Islamic Eid celebration marking the end of Ramadan.

The controversy has escalated into an angry nationwide debate over the role of Islam in post-Christian Denmark, where a burgeoning Muslim population is becoming increasingly assertive in imposing its will on a wide range of social and civic issues.

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3459/denmark-muslim-country
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 03:51 pm
@blatham,
Quote:
...Until recently, it was extraordinarily unusual for the government to seek such a stay from the justices while a case was still winding its way through lower courts. As Sotomayor warned in a dissenting opinion last September, "granting a stay pending appeal should be an 'extraordinary' act. Unfortunately, it appears the Government has treated this exceptional mechanism as a new normal."

Actually it is typical for lower court rulings to be stayed while appeals are pursued.


Quote:
According to a recent paper by University of Texas law professor Stephen Vladeck, "in less than three years, [Trump's] Solicitor General has filed at least twenty-one applications for stays in the Supreme Court (including ten during the October 2018 Term alone)" --- and Vladeck's paper did not include the Trump administration's two applications in the public charge cases. By comparison, "during the sixteen years of the George W. Bush and Obama Administrations, the Solicitor General filed a total of eight such applications --- averaging one every other Term."...

That is a natural result of progressives endlessly challenging the President in court over and over again.


blatham wrote:
Given what we know about the conservative project to capture the courts through inserting conservative ideologues and thus to produce outcomes which forward that ideology AND given McConnell's block of Garland (on a pretense he has already admitted he would not follow should a new seat open up) it is mandatory that a first act of any new Dem president should be the appointment of two new liberal justices. The right will scream. **** 'em.

It seems like by now progressives would start to get some sort of clue that when they pull those sorts of stunts, Republicans turn around and do the same thing back to them.

As one example of this, blocking Garland was revenge for the Democrats blocking a slew of Bush's appointments in 2007-08.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 03:52 pm
@revelette3,
revelette3 wrote:
I read about that, went through quite a search to get the article. Sick SC vote.

What vote, and what was bad about it?

If you merely mean the granting of a stay during appeal, that is typical of appeals.


revelette3 wrote:
But hardly surprising. That's what we get when we ignore reality out of some misplaced purity test.

What reality is being ignored by who?
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 03:52 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Quote:
I do find it a bit amazing that, so soon after the unlamented 20th century, which provided so many examples of the loss of freedom and poverty that results from their application, these ideas are so easily accepted by so many.

Yes, I hear Denmark is a horrible, destitute, wretched place to live.

No it is very pleasant. I've travelled there many times, and to Norway as well- only once to Sweden. The Danes are very independent and, at the same time, very agreeable. Unlike their Scandinavian cousins, they don't take themselves very seriously, and even make jokes about themselves and their culture - something I've never heard in Norway or Sweden. The Norwegians appear to come in two types; dour & rigid vs hard drinking extroverts. They have recently created separate school systems to accommodate the Sudanese immigrants who, it appears, don't assimilate very well.

I believe one reason their welfare systems work well is they have strong shared civic and moral values, a very monolithic culture, and a long history of independence. It remains to be seen if it can survive the new EU world of forced immigration: the indicators so far are decidedly mixed, particularly in Norway.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 03:55 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
The Tyranny of the Minority, from Iowa Caucus to Electoral College

Progressives hate our Constitution.

Americans love our Constitution.

Progressivism is bad. I suggest that progressives be placed in labor camps and reeducated.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 03:56 pm
@revelette3,
revelette3 wrote:
Quote:
Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders says there would "absolutely" be situations where military action is warranted if he's elected president. In an interview with 60 Minutes correspondent Anderson Cooper, Sanders laid out the criteria for when he would use the armed forces.

"Threats against the American people, to be sure. Threats against our allies. I believe in NATO," Sanders said. "I believe that the United States, everything being equal, should be working with other countries in alliance, not doing it alone."

Cooper asked Sanders if China taking military action against Taiwan would elicit a military response from the United States.

"That's something, yeah," Sanders said. "I mean I think we have got to make it clear to countries around the world that we will not sit by and allow invasions to take place, absolutely."

Sanders also said he would meet with Kim Jong Un as president.

"Yeah. I mean I've criticized Trump for everything... under the sun," Sanders said. "But meeting with people who are antagonistic is, to me, not a bad thing to do. I think, unfortunately, Trump went into that meeting unprepared. I think it was a photo opportunity and did not have the-- kind of the diplomatic work necessary to make it a success. But I do not have a problem with sitting down with adversaries all over the world."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bernie-sanders-democratic-presidential-candidate-military-intervention-60-minutes-2020-02-23/

Comes on tonight.

Sounds good.

If only he didn't want to violate everyone's civil liberties for his own sadistic pleasure.

If only he wasn't a neonazi eager to harm our ally Israel.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 05:34 pm
Grapevine says Bernie ‘is in talks’ with a former presidential candidate for Veep slot.
coldjoint
 
  0  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 07:37 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
Grapevine says Bernie ‘is in talks’ with a former presidential candidate for Veep slot.

Gillibrand will certainly say anything she is told to. I would think it would be a woman, but I could be wrong.
coldjoint
 
  0  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 07:44 pm
Quote:
Ex-Clinton adviser predicts Bloomberg, Clinton plotting 'scheme' to make Hillary the Dem nominee

Look out Bernie.
Quote:
Nobody will be nominated on the first ballot, and it'll go to a second ballot. Now, the problem is that the party establishment doesn't have a candidate. They can't do Bloomberg because he got killed in the debate. ... Can't do [Joe] Biden because he's already lost the frontrunner status. … [Pete] Buttigieg looks like a high school kid at the Model UN, and he's not gonna be able to have it, certainly not against [President Donald] Trump. [Elizabeth] Warren is third, but she's pretty far to the left, and people are not gonna want to— they're not going to want to trust her.

And when you put it together, it will go to a second ballot and then I think Hillary Clinton enters the race. And the superdelegates will all leave who they are for and go to Hillary.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/ex-clinton-adviser-predicts-bloomberg-clinton-plotting-scheme-to-make-hillary-dem-nominee?utm_content=buffer4d815&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=tw-theblaze
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 07:47 pm
@coldjoint,
Good guess. The buzz—may not be true—is that Bernie is talking to Kamala. Reminding that it’s gossip—from mid-level KHIVE people.

We hope not because she’d kill the movement in its crib the moment she gets the chance.
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2020 04:40 am
Bernie Sanders Is Making a Big Mistake

It has to do with respect.

Quote:
The last four presidents — Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, Barack Obama and Donald Trump — are four very different politicians. But they have one crucial similarity: They all tried to appeal to voters who weren’t obvious supporters.

Clinton promised a “third way,” distinct from traditional Democratic or Republican policies. Bush ran on compassionate conservatism. Obama said that red and blue America shared more in common than pundits claimed.

Even Trump, radical as he is, flouted Republican orthodoxy by sounding like a populist Democrat on Social Security, Medicare and trade. Polls showed that voters judged Trump to be more moderate than any Republican nominee since the 1970s.

The art of peeling off voters — those in the middle or those who aren’t ideological — may be the most important skill in politics. It doesn’t require a mushy centrist policy agenda, either. Trump has made that clear. So, in earlier eras, did Ronald Reagan and Franklin D. Roosevelt.

How? By understanding that politics is inescapably performative. Voters respond to signals. They respond to gestures of respect from politicians who are willing to say, in effect: We may not agree on everything, but I see you and understand what matters to you.

The newly energetic American left has largely rejected this approach, choosing instead to believe a comforting myth about swing voters being extinct and turnout being a cure-all. It’s a big mistake.

Before going further, I want to make clear that this is not a column urging Democrats to return to Clintonian centrism. I’m making a different case — that the left is hurting its own ability to win elections and enact sweeping change, by insisting on an orthodox version of progressivism.

To put it another way: Can you think of one way that Bernie Sanders is signaling respect to voters outside of his base?

He has taken a nearly maximalist liberal position on every major issue. It’s especially striking from him, because he has shown over his career that he grasps the importance of building a coalition.

Sanders once won over blue-collar Vermonters with help from a moderate position on guns. “We need a sensible debate about gun control which overcomes the cultural divide that exists in this country,” he said in 2015, “and I think I can play an important role in this.” He was also once an heir to organized labor’s skepticism of large-scale immigration. “At a time when the middle class is shrinking, the last thing we need is to bring over in a period of years, millions of people into this country who are prepared to lower wages for American workers,” he said in 2007.

Now, though, Sanders has evidently decided that progressives will no longer accept impurities — or even much tactical vagueness. He, along with Elizabeth Warren, has embraced policies that are popular on the left and nowhere else: a ban on fracking; the decriminalization of border crossings; the provision of federal health benefits to undocumented immigrants; the elimination of private health insurance.

For many progressives, each of these issues has become a moral litmus test. Any restriction of immigration is considered a denial of human rights. Any compromise on guns or health care is an acceptance of preventable deaths.

And I understand the progressive arguments on these issues. But turning every compromise into an existential moral failing is not a smart way to practice politics. It comforts the persuaded while alienating the persuadable.

F.D.R. and Reagan understood this, as did Abraham Lincoln and many great social reformers, including Frederick Douglass, Jane Addams, Martin Luther King Jr. and Cesar Chavez. Strong political movements can accept impurity on individual issues in the service of a larger goal: winning.

The impurities will still produce bitter complaints, of course. F.D.R. and Reagan were both lambasted by their allies at times. But few of those allies abandoned them. Victory is an excellent balm.

Over the past few years, the progressive left has made impressive progress, elevating issues like the $15 minimum wage, expanded Medicare and free college. A central figure in the movement, Sanders, is now the favorite to win the Democratic nomination.

But progressives are still a very long way from achieving the changes they seek. Republicans control the Senate, and a conservative majority runs the Supreme Court. Trump has an excellent chance to win re-election and usher in a dark era for American progressivism.

Faced with the potential of either large gains or historic losses, progressives would be wise to stop believing only what they want to believe. Don’t cherry-pick polls to claim that most Americans actually favor a ban on private insurance. Don’t imagine that millions of heretofore silent progressive supporters will materialize on Election Day. In the 2018 midterms, Sanders-style candidates lost swing districts, while candidates demonstrating respect to swing voters won again and again.

Beating Trump in November will be even harder. And uncomfortable compromises will make it more likely.

For Sanders, that may mean walking back his position on fracking, which threatens his chances in must-win Pennsylvania. It could also mean repeating some of his earlier arguments about the need for border security and immigration restrictions. Many working-class voters, including people of color, agree with that.

Sanders is not an ideal Democratic nominee. But he does have some big strengths. One of them is the passionate support he inspires, which gives him an opportunity to reach out to new voters while holding on to his base.

nyt/leonhardt
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2020 05:18 am
Fracking ruins water.
Fracking happens mostly in neighborhoods of the poor because no one will defend them.
Fracking kills people over time because it poisons their water supply.
Fracking is evil.
Would you like fracking in your backyard?

No compromise.
No fracking.
People who work in the fracking industry can have GND jobs or infrastructure jobs. New industries are rising to replace damaging industries.

Bernie will not walk back his position on fracking.
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2020 06:10 am
Of course fracking is an environmentally destructive, methane-releasing, water-polluting industry. Trump's re-election won't do anything to change that.

So if Sanders actually hopes to win the White House he'll need some way to convince workers in the fracking industry (as well as other extractive and polluting industries) that they won't face economic uncertainty. He'll need to show states that the loss of those industries won't mean big gaps in the budget due to loss of tax revenues and unemployment outlays. And he'll need the electoral votes of Pennsylvania.

Any ideas on how he can achieve these necessary goals? I don't think expecting a few hundred thousand new Pennsylvanian Sanders voters to suddenly emerge out of nowhere is a realistic strategy. With luck, columns like Leonhardt's will provoke Sanders's campaign into releasing a more nuanced plan for dealing with hydraulic fracturing of Marcellus shale. It's not going to be easy but it has to be done.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2020 06:30 am
I still haven’t seen anyone confront Sanders with the question of how he intends to respond if he gains the presidency and Mitch McConnell is still killing in the crib any democratic proposals.

Warren was asked at a CNN town hall, and she talked about doing everything she could with executive orders and then heading up a strong effort to eliminate the filibuster so that bills could pass with a simple majority instead of the “super” version which requires 60 members’ aye. It wasn’t maybe the strongest, most definitive answer, but at least she was asked and had to answer.

Shouldn’t Bernie -as the clear front runner-be asked this? I think he needs to provide his plan for gettin ANY (much less all)of his revolutionary new paradigm put into effect.

Or, should we just be satisfied that he promises to radically change our entire economy, and trust him with the petty details about how to do that from within this government?

0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2020 06:32 am
@hightor,
Quote:
Can you think of one way that Bernie Sanders is signaling respect to voters outside of his base?

LOL! Let me help Mr Leonhardt with this very easy question...

1) Bernie is an independent, not a registered democrat, and as such he is signaling to voters outside the democrat base that he can and will reach out to them.
2) He has de facto been on FAUX News and other rightist outlets, thus he has tried to reach out to republican-leaning voters in practice, with good results too, and that is in essence what showing some respect to voters outside your base is.
3) He has got nearly half the democrats choosing him in the Nevada caucus, in a very diverse state; this shows he is able to connect with a variety of Dem-leaning voters of all races and gender, far beyond the lame centrist cliché of the 'bros'.

But of course I am not answering the question that Mr. Leonhardt is really asking. The op-ed makes clear that what is being reproached here is not actually Bernie's approach to voters outside his base. Rather, what the author takes aim at is his policies, and in his language, "signaling respect to voters outside your base" does not mean, say, speaking to them through FAUX, but it means "changing your policy tune to make it more appealing to voters outside your base".

I disagree with this novlang, and I think Bernie disagrees as well. To tell voters what they want to hear is not equal to respecting them.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2020 06:58 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
No compromise.
No fracking.
People who work in the fracking industry can have GND jobs or infrastructure jobs. New industries are rising to replace damaging industries.

Bernie will not walk back his position on fracking.

How does he plan to generate power when renewable sources fail to generate enough to meet our energy demands?

Coal or nuclear?

Or does he plan to impose socialist-style rolling blackouts on the American people?
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2020 07:18 am
Quote:
Sanders’ Nevada victory definitively disproved one of the most enduring myths about his campaign: that it could attract left-leaning young white people, but was incapable of drawing in a diverse coalition. In fact, voters of color were a primary source of Sanders’ strength in Nevada; he received the majority of Latino votes. Entrance polls showed Sanders winning “men and women, whites and Latinos, voters 17-29, 30-44 and 45-65, those with college degrees and those without, liberal Democrats (by a lot) and moderate/conservatives (narrowly), union and non-union households.” The poisonous concept of the white “Bernie Bro” as the “typical” Sanders supporter should be dead.

Some members of the media establishment had no idea what to make of Sanders’ Nevada victory. On MSNBC, James Carville said that “Putin” had won Nevada, and Chris Matthews declared the primary “over” (ill-advisedly comparing Sanders’ victory to the Nazi invasion of France). Jennifer Rubin of the Washington Post admittedthat Sanders had been stronger with nonwhite voters than she expected, and it might now be “too late” to do anything about him.
...

Let’s be clear: the other candidates were crushed, and Nevada was yet more evidence that there is no longer much serious opposition to Sanders. Michael Bloomberg fizzled completely in his big debut, and Democrats would be out of their minds to enrage every Sanders supporter by nominating a Republican billionaire. Joe Biden has lost badly in all of the first three contests, and it’s very clear that he can’t run an effective campaign. Elizabeth Warren’s campaign has nearly gone broke and in desperation she has resorted to relying on the Super PACs that she previously shunned. Pete Buttigieg can’t win voters of color or young people (and has accurately been described as sounding like “a neural network trained on West Wing episodes”). As Matthews says: it’s over. Bernie is dominating the fundraising, dominating the polls, and winning every primary. I am not sure Jacobin is right that “it’s Bernie’s party now”—for one thing, virtually the entire Congressional Democratic party is still opposed to Bernie. But it’s certainly Bernie’s nomination. There is simply no other credible candidate.


https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/23/after-bernie-sanders-landslide-nevada-win-its-time-for-democrats-to-unite-behind-him

0 Replies
 
 

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