hightor
 
  4  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 07:24 am
The Sanders victory in Nevada wasn't a surprise, and this is the first time this season that the totals for Sanders and Warren comprised a majority of the votes cast. This continues to show that he is very likely to secure the nomination. It doesn't bode well for Democrats winning the election, but that's really up to Sanders. He'll have to lower the spinnaker after the convention and start doing some actual sailing, tacking left and right as the currents dictate and keeping aware of subtle shifts in the force and direction of the political wind. Running against the Democratic Party won't do it. Unifying the party just might. He can't campaign as a lone knight; he's going to need a friendly House and Senate to accomplish anything.

Again, there's something troubling about candidates tailoring their messages to meet the anticipated participation of voters from a particular demographic. (One could call it "pandering" but that seems a bit uncharitable.) We'll see how it works out for Biden in SC. I still think the whole primary process is in need of a total reform. A larger aggregate of early states chosen to reflect a diverse constituency, more like the national electorate, would give a clearer picture of a candidate's chances in the general contest in November.

Ross Douthat has interesting column today comparing the NeverTrump movement in '16 to the PleaseNotBernie sentiment today. A few highlights:

Quote:

You need candidates who aren’t actually winning primaries to drop out.

The fatal conceit of establishment politicians facing an insurgency is that because the insurgent has obvious weaknesses, they should hang around and hang around, piling up third-place finishes and minor delegate hauls, in the hopes of gaining … something. What they are actually likely to gain is blame, irrelevance, or both; just ask those noted influencers Jeb Bush and John Kasich.

(...)

Against an unconventional front-runner, unconventional measures are required.

In the case of Trump, the person most willing to think this way was Ted Cruz, who made a serious bid to induce Marco Rubio to join him in an anti-Trump unity ticket. Would this have ultimately worked? Quite possibly not, but it was a brighter idea than the path that Rubio ultimately took — passionately bemoaning Trump’s ascent but refusing to gamble boldly in response.

(...)

You probably can’t stop a plurality candidate at a contested convention.


And that’s especially true if he has a clear delegate lead. I spent the early months of 2016 arguing otherwise, but the party system I was defending is pretty obviously dead. There’s little stomach among party officialdom to work against a candidate who wins the most primary votes, and voters themselves are unlikely to sustain rival candidacies if they’re clearly just playing for a brokered convention.

nyt/douthat
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 07:27 am
karyn stetz
@elainesurma
·
7m
Replying to
@PresumptuousBug
@MSNBC@HardballChris have become way worse than Fox News, comparing a Jewish MSN’s campaign to a Nazi invasion. An insensitive, bigoted, and horrific thing to say. Fire that man now! #FireChrisMathews
_____________________________________________
A point to ponder: FOX News is showing much more professionalism that MSNBC.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  5  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 07:41 am
Quote:
There is no excuse for this propaganda on the American airwaves.

This isn't really "propaganda". He's not talking about what's best for the country, he's talking specifically about the institutional concerns of the "Democratic establishment":

Quote:
I'm wondering if Democratic moderates want Bernie Sanders to be President?


I wonder that myself, not as a "moderate" but as someone who wants to see Trump defeated and a Democratic takeover of both houses. Certainly it's okay to "wonder". I wonder if Sanders will be able to attract moderate voters as well. He'll need their support to win, so I wonder how he'll approach the situation.

Matthews has said things previously that could truly be seen as outright hostility to Sanders's candidacy, but this isn't one of them. And, as I've said many times before, if you're a strong Sanders supporter, why do you even care what the establishment fossils think?
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 07:53 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Quote:
There is no excuse for this propaganda on the American airwaves.

This isn't really "propaganda". He's not talking about what's best for the country, he's talking specifically about the institutional concerns of the "Democratic establishment":
Quote:
No, hours prior to equating a large bloc of Hispanic voters to a Nazi take-over, he outright tried to sway the vote by fear-mongering the voters that our country will implode if they vote for this specific guy. Isn't it illegal to sway the vote on election day before or while polls are open?


Quote:
I'm wondering if Democratic moderates want Bernie Sanders to be President?


I wonder that myself, not as a "moderate" but as someone who wants to see Trump defeated and a Democratic takeover of both houses. Certainly it's okay to "wonder". I wonder if Sanders will be able to attract moderate voters as well. He'll need their support to win, so I wonder how he'll approach the situation.

Matthews has said things previously that could truly be seen as outright hostility to Sanders's candidacy, but this isn't one of them. And, as I've said many times before, if you're a strong Sanders supporter, why do you even care what the establishment fossils think?
Quote:
Because some people think this guy is more than bluster and opinion and bias. They may think he knows something - and that fear-mongering may scare them into voting against their best interests.
It's wrong.

hightor
 
  3  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 08:59 am
@Lash,
Quote:
No, hours prior to equating a large bloc of Hispanic voters to a Nazi take-over...

The historical reference wasn't meant to suggest the Sanders voters were "Nazis"; it wasn't about their ideology. It was describing their power, as when the invading Germans smashed through France's Maginot Line. Commentators run out of cliches — how many times can you refer to a "tsunami" of voters before you have to change the simile? georgeob1 demonstrated a similar lack of perspective yesterday when the Trump administration was described as "Stalinist" — all he could think of were the gulags and summary executions. But how many times can you describe a situation as "Orwellian"?
Quote:
Because some people think this guy is more than bluster and opinion and bias.

I think people are still capable of judging candidates based on their performance and the words of the candidates themselves. The fact that Sanders scored a significant victory despite alleged MSM hostility is really a lot more telling. If Sanders wins and adapts a more centrist-friendly style after the convention the MSM will be his biggest friend by helping to reach moderates who have been resistant to his message and turned off by his online supporters. Eyes on the prize.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 09:18 am
I've been thinking a bit about Bloomberg's devastating debate performance. Specifically, his failure to adequately prepare for it. You'd think he'd know better. And you'd certainly think that his high-priced advisers and consultants would have known better as well.

I think what must have happened is that his bloated self-regard led him to imagine he could just step in and shine like a mini-god. After all, he's really really rich and connected and famous and surely that was all evidence of his intrinsic superiority. I suspect prudent advice was ignored, in quite the same manner as with Trump.

All that money could have been put to so many better uses. The man is such an asshole.
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 09:38 am
@hightor,
Biden was polling ahead of Sanders in Nevada until the very end.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ERbHpU6UEAATXjY?format=jpg&name=large
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 10:33 am
@hightor,
Brand X is right. Biden thought he had Nevada sewn up because Harry Reid is usually able to deliver the Culinary Union to the candidate of his (the highest bidder’s) preference. Our campaign went into the homes of the union members and explained the facts re M4A and on the strength of their dissatisfaction with their union healthcare (even though they admit it’s better than what most people have), they swept Bernie to the win.

There’s a similar kingmaker in S.C.—James Clyburn. He has been working to deliver black voters in the state to Biden, obviously the establishment’s great hope. Bernie and billionaire Steyer are cutting into Biden’s deal, and I love to see it. Nobody should wrap up any huge demographic, tie it up with a bow, and hand it off to someone who will immediately dismiss them.

Bernie has fabulous *real moves* he’ll be making on behalf of black voters days into office. For example, Biden’s support in SC is plummeting (17%) and Bernie TODAY is only 5% behind him.

Nobody expected this.

0 Replies
 
revelette3
 
  4  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 11:08 am
@blatham,
I read about that, went through quite a search to get the article. Sick SC vote. But hardly surprising. That's what we get when we ignore reality out of some misplaced purity test.

As for the Nevada vote, depressing. Having said that, of course between Sanders and Trump I want Sanders to win. Don't mean I have to act like I like it or become a Bernie bro.
hightor
 
  4  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 11:17 am
Quote:
Nobody expected this.

All the late polls I saw had Sanders winning Nevada so I expected him to have a good showing.

One wonders how much of Biden's precipitous decline was due to Ukraine.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 11:21 am
@hightor,
Days ago, results of Sanders’ canvassing began to be apparent; months ago, touted as a Biden stronghold.

Hispanics drove the vote—they cited healthcare.
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 11:28 am
@Lash,
His poor showing in Iowa probably had an effect as well.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 11:36 am
I believe that both Biden's decline and Sanders' ascent in the Democrat primaries strongly appear to be separate and distinct things arising from independent factors. I believe Biden has been hurt by a combination of factors including his often inept campaign appearances; issues arising from the Ukraine matters publicized in the ill-conceived and poorly timed and executed Democrat Impeachment effort ( as hightor suggested above ) ; and finally his own long-term limitations that were apparently forgotten in a Democrat establishment rush to get an alternative to Sanders.

Sanders' accelerating rise appears to have caught many by surprise - including myself. I suspect he is, among other things, benefitting from the simultaneous declines in support for Warren and other left wing candidates in the primary, and a growing frustration among his very energetic supporters with the all-too-obvious continuing efforts by the Democrat Establishment to find an alternative to him wherever they may look (i.e. Bloomberg).
hightor
 
  5  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 12:19 pm
The Tyranny of the Minority, from Iowa Caucus to Electoral College

Quote:
It has been more than two weeks since the Iowa caucuses, and we still don’t know who won. That should give us pause. We don’t know in part because of a combination of technological failing and human error. But we’re also in the dark for a political reason. That should give us further pause.

No one disputes that Bernie Sanders won the most votes in Iowa. Yet Pete Buttigieg has the most delegates. While experts continue to parse the flaws in the reporting process, the stark and simple fact that more voters supported Sanders than any other candidate somehow remains irrelevant, obscure.

America’s democratic reflexes have grown sluggish. Not only has the loser of the popular vote won two out of the last five presidential elections, but come November, he may win a third. Like the children of alcoholics, we’ve learned to live with the situation, adjusting ourselves to the tyranny of its effects. We don’t talk anymore about who will win the popular vote in the coming election. We calculate which candidate will win enough votes in the right states to secure a majority in the Electoral College. Perhaps that’s why the scandal coming out of Iowa is the app that failed and the funky math of the precinct counters—and not the democratic embarrassment that the winner of the most votes doesn’t automatically win the most delegates.

*

In the original edition of his definitive history The Right to Vote, which came out two months before the 2000 election, Harvard scholar Alexander Keyssar never mentioned the Electoral College. Trying, in an afterword he wrote later, to account for his omission, Keyssar explained that before the election, he didn’t think the Electoral College had much to do with voting rights. He thought of it simply as a “device for aggregating” the popular vote.

At the time, this was an understandable belief. (Keyssar has since devoted himself to writing what is likely to be the definitive history of the Electoral College. It is scheduled to be published in June.) Not since 1888 had a candidate won the presidential election while losing the popular vote. So insignificant had the Electoral College become by 2000 that CBS News had to remind people on the eve of the election that the Electoral College wasn’t an “institution of higher learning” but the means by which the president is chosen. A relic of the nineteenth century, the divergence between the electoral vote and the popular vote was unlikely in the twentieth and twenty-first.

Like the Electoral College, the Iowa caucuses don’t aggregate people’s votes; they weigh them, assigning different values to the votes depending on where they are cast. Much has been made of the alchemy whereby support for a candidate is converted into “state delegate equivalents,” or SDEs. Less attention has been paid to the fact that the number of SDEs each caucus is assigned and distributes among the candidates depends not on the size of the local population or turnout at the caucus but on a formula biased toward rural parts of the state. In 2016, forty-five citizens in remote, sparsely populated Fremont County could effectively select one SDE. In more populous Jefferson County, it required two hundred and thirteen citizens to select one SDE. That’s how it’s possible to win the popular vote and lose Iowa—even if the app works fine and the caucus chairs are good at math.

“The basic principle of representative government,” the US Supreme Court declared in 1964, is that “the weight of a citizen’s vote cannot be made to depend on where he lives.” In Iowa, as in other parts of the American constitutional order, that principle is not in effect.

*

Even with their acceptance of slavery and a highly restricted franchise, many of the Framers were uneasy about the notion that some people’s votes might count more than others. When one group of delegates proposed that each state, regardless of the size of its population, should have an equal vote in Congress, James Madison denounced the plan as “confessedly unjust,” comparing it to the scheme of “vicious representation in Great Britain.” State-based apportionment, claimed Pennsylvania’s James Wilson, would only reproduce the inequality of Britain’s rotten boroughs, where a nearly depopulated Old Sarum—described at the time as sixty acres without a home—had two representatives in Parliament, while London, with 750,000 to one million residents, had four.

Madison and Wilson lost that debate; the United States Senate is the result. Within a year of the ratification of the Constitution, the 50,000 free residents of Delaware, the least populous state in the nation, had the same number of senators as the 455,000 free residents of Virginia, the most populous state. That makes for a ratio of power of nine to one. Today, according to a recent report by the Roosevelt Institute, that ratio has expanded to sixty-seven to one. Wyoming’s 583,000 residents enjoy as much power in the Senate as the nearly 40 million residents of California. (In the Electoral College, the power ratio is four to one.)

Eighteen percent of the American population—on average, whiter and older than the rest of the population—can elect a majority of the Senate. If those senators are not united in their opposition to a piece of legislation, the filibuster enables an even smaller group of them, representing 10 percent of the population, to block it. Should legislation supported by a vast majority of the American people somehow make it past these hurdles, the Supreme Court, selected by a president representing a minority of the population and approved by senators representing an even smaller minority, can overturn it.

The problem of minority rule, in other words, isn’t Trumpian or temporary; it’s bipartisan and enduring. It cannot be overcome by getting rid of the filibuster or racist gerrymanders—neither of which have any basis in the Constitution—though both of these reforms would help. It’s not an isolated embarrassment of “our democracy,” restricted to newly problematic outliers like the Electoral College and the Iowa caucuses. Minority rule is a keystone of the constitutional order—and arguably, given the constitutional provision that “no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate,” not eliminable, at least not without a huge social upheaval.

*

In the second half of the twentieth century, the United States had two extremely close presidential elections: 1960 and 1968. Given how effectively the Soviet Union propagandized about American apartheid, prodding US officials to push for desegregation in order to avoid bad publicity in the decolonizing world, it’s not inconceivable that the cold war also may have helped prevent those elections from producing awkward splits between the electoral vote and the popular vote. If American elites feared that the tyranny of a white majority couldn’t withstand scrutiny in the Global South, what kind of legitimation crisis might the tyranny of a white minority have provoked? As the United States today approaches a multiracial majority, the tyranny of a white minority is precisely what we are hurtling toward, without the countervailing pressure of an ideologically challenging superpower to shame us into stopping it.

It was also during the cold war that the United States grew increasingly uncomfortable with the rotten boroughs of the American South. “To say that a vote is worth more in one district than in another,” the Supreme Court declared in Wesberry v. Sanders (1964), would “run counter to our fundamental ideas of democratic government.” Though malapportionment in the South produced power ratios—three to one in Georgia, forty-one to one in Alabama—that seem quaint in light of today’s Senate, they were sufficiently large to provoke Chief Justice Earl Warren, in Reynolds v. Sims (1964), to spell out, in simple numerical terms, the challenge they posed to basic principles of democratic morality.

“It would appear extraordinary,” wrote the chief justice, if the votes of citizens in one part of a state were “given two times, or five times, or ten times the weight of votes of citizens” in another part of the state. That would mean that the first group of citizens “could vote two, five, or ten times for their legislative representatives” while the second group “could vote only once.” Under such a scheme of representation, the right to vote would not be “the same right” for all citizens. “To sanction minority control” of a legislative body “would appear to deny majority rights in a way that far surpasses any possible denial of minority rights.”

Warren clearly was worried about the implications of his argument for federal institutions like the Electoral College and the Senate. That is why he devoted several pages of his opinion to a preemptive rebuttal of “the so-called federal analogy.” Much of Warren’s rebuttal depended on the invocation of history. The apportionment scheme of the Senate and the Electoral College was a necessary compromise “arising from unique historical circumstances” of thirteen sovereign states contracting to form a national government. That claim from history sits uneasily with Warren’s claim, later in the opinion, that “history alone” is not a “permissible factor” in justifying departures from one-person, one-vote, that “citizens, not history or economic interests, cast votes.”

More important, however, is the history Warren invoked. Like the court’s other liberal justices, Warren cast the constitutional settlement over representation as a compromise between large and small states. As the Yale legal scholar Akhil Reed Amar has noted, this is “the stodgy version” of constitutional history that many of us grew up with. The less stodgy and increasingly accepted version holds that the battles over representation at the Convention had more to do with slavery than the size of states. As Madison pointed out, “the real difference of interests” at the Convention “lay, not between large and small but between Northern and Southern States. The institution of slavery and its consequences formed the line of discrimination.”

It’s clear why such historical truths could not be acknowledged during the cold war. Given the centrality of the Senate to Jim Crow and the near impossibility of eliminating the Senate, as well as the improbability of reforming the Electoral College, it made sense to describe these institutions as musty and ancient compromises between large and small states. In the 1960s, ironically, anachronism was less threatening than relevance. Now that the cold war is over, however, we can admit these truths. Now that the cold war is over, that may not matter.

*

We are at a strange moment in American history. On the one hand, the country has never been more interested in, and desperate to know, what the majority wants. As the rise of data geeks like the two Nates—Silver of fivethirtyeight.com and Cohn of The New York Times—and outlets like Vox show, our appetite for polling is ravenous; our capacity to digest the results, prodigious. On the other hand, we have an electoral system that makes it ever more difficult to determine the will of the majority, and a political system that makes that will ever more difficult to enact. Something’s gotta give.

Or not. In her 1997 collection of critical essays The End of the Novel of Love, Vivian Gornick remarks on that “climactic moment” in a John Cheever story “when the husband realizes his wife holds him in contempt, or the wife knows the husband is committing adultery.” With mounting dread, the reader wonders how either character can go on after this moment of truth. What makes the story truly “large, awesome, terrible,” however, is when the reader realizes that the characters do “go on like this.” That moment of truth leaves the reader “staring into space, the void opening at her feet.”

nyrdaily/robin
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 12:37 pm
@hightor,
I thought you'd pick up on that one. Robin is a very smart fellow.
0 Replies
 
revelette3
 
  4  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 01:01 pm

CBS News poll: Most voters expect Trump will be reelected


https://cbsnews2.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2020/02/23/61160564-bd62-4ddb-8f2c-0df873fc8cde/thumbnail/620x349/0dd3c34ced575e920b5e0ab874de161a/image001-4.png#
revelette3
 
  3  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 01:04 pm
Quote:
Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders says there would "absolutely" be situations where military action is warranted if he's elected president. In an interview with 60 Minutes correspondent Anderson Cooper, Sanders laid out the criteria for when he would use the armed forces.

"Threats against the American people, to be sure. Threats against our allies. I believe in NATO," Sanders said. "I believe that the United States, everything being equal, should be working with other countries in alliance, not doing it alone."

Cooper asked Sanders if China taking military action against Taiwan would elicit a military response from the United States.

"That's something, yeah," Sanders said. "I mean I think we have got to make it clear to countries around the world that we will not sit by and allow invasions to take place, absolutely."

Sanders also said he would meet with Kim Jong Un as president.

"Yeah. I mean I've criticized Trump for everything... under the sun," Sanders said. "But meeting with people who are antagonistic is, to me, not a bad thing to do. I think, unfortunately, Trump went into that meeting unprepared. I think it was a photo opportunity and did not have the-- kind of the diplomatic work necessary to make it a success. But I do not have a problem with sitting down with adversaries all over the world."




https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bernie-sanders-democratic-presidential-candidate-military-intervention-60-minutes-2020-02-23/

Comes on tonight.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 01:17 pm
@revelette3,
Another way to view the matter
Quote:
While I was away I had a lot of time to reflect and pull together my thoughts on the Democratic primary race. As I’ve stated in the past I think there are major downside risks for the Democrats if they nominate Bernie Sanders. At the same time, I see a lot of pundits and not a few Democrats saying that Sanders is “unelectable”.

As I say, I’ve made clear that I have a lot of skepticism about Sanders as a general election candidate. But the idea that he’s unelectable is just belied by too much evidence. The most important is this: pollsters have been polling a Sanders versus Trump contest for over a year. Virtually every one of those polls has shown Sanders beating Trump. The great majority show him beating Trump by margins that make an electoral college win very likely. None of this guarantees a Sanders victory, obviously. Indeed, there are two or three reasons I fear those numbers will not hold up – one being that Sanders has simply never faced a concerted negative campaign. (I’ll address those reasons in a separate post.) Given the enormous stakes, you don’t just want someone who has a shot. You want to be sure it’s the candidate with the best shot, to the extent you can ascertain that. But you simply can’t state as a fact that someone can’t win when virtually all the polling data shows they are at least a favorite. That’s certainly in spite of the evidence.
Josh Marshall
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 01:29 pm
@georgeob1,
Everything you said is on the money, but you did leave out the real appeal of his policies that will make life infinitely better for working people.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Sun 23 Feb, 2020 01:55 pm
@Lash,
There's no denying the appeal of his Socialist promises. I do find it a bit amazing that, so soon after the unlamented 20th century, which provided so many examples of the loss of freedom and poverty that results from their application, these ideas are so easily accepted by so many.

However I do believe there is an upper limit to their appeal, and that, as a result, Sanders has virtually no chance of willing the election.
 

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