Progressives (Liberals)

@MontereyJack,

No one was forced to do anything wrong. If it is OK for Democrats to have people investigated for political reasons, then it is also OK for Mr. Trump to have people investigated for political reasons.

No double standards.

Not to mention the fact that you can't even prove that Mr. Trump was trying to have the Bidens investigated for political reasons. He may well have thought that the Bidens were up to no good in Ukraine. And they may well have been up to no good.

Withholding aid in order to make other countries do what he wants them to do is something that every president does.

1 Reply

Quote:

About a year and a half ago, before Donald Trump launched an illegal extortion scheme, Ken Starr was promoting a book and sat down with CNN’s Jake Tapper. The host asked whether he believed the current president would ever be impeached.

“I hope not, because one of the lessons in the book is, impeachment is hell,” Starr replied. “The country should not be taken through that…. Unless there is a growing national consensus that impeachment is proper, it’s doomed to fail and it’s just the wrong way to go.

The irony was staggering: Starr led an impeachment crusade against Bill Clinton 22 years ago, and there was no “national consensus” about the propriety of the special prosecutor’s pursuit. On the contrary, most Americans opposed Clinton’s impeachment, a detail Starr was comfortable ignoring.

The Republican lawyer’s indifference toward irony apparently hasn’t changed.

Quote:
Ken Starr, a member of Trump’s legal team who served as the independent counsel investigating former President Bill Clinton, lamented that the U.S. is now in the “age of impeachment.”

“In this particular juncture in America’s history, the Senate is being called to sit as the high court of impeachment all too frequently,” Starr said. “Indeed, we are living in what I think can aptly be described as the ‘age of impeachment.’”

“How did we get here, with presidential impeachment invoked frequently in its inherently destabilizing as well as acrimonious way?” he asked.

Starr went on to call for a “return to our country’s traditions,” when presidential impeachment was truly “a measure of last resort.”

The hypocrisy, of course, is breathtaking. When Starr was hunting Clinton, he had none of these concerns. It was only when a Republican president started abusing his power in the hopes of cheating an election that Starr decided that he’d like to see the process used far less frequently.

But that’s not the only problem with his pitch.

Note, for example, that his new posture is inherently dismissive of the underlying allegations and their seriousness. I’m mindful of “our country’s traditions,” and the importance of not using the congressional impeachment power in a careless or routine fashion, but I also think it’s fair to say that most objective scholars see Trump’s radical abuse of power as exactly the kind of dangerous misconduct that warrants such action.

Benen

All of that is correct. But what is also transparent here is Starr's refusal to acknowledge his own personal agency in the Clinton impeachment - what led to it and how it developed with him in charge.

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@McGentrix,

McGentrix wrote:

How much credibility does Bolton have with you?

Don’t take it as my endorsement of him in any other way - I disagree with him on probably every issue . But in this situation, with him leaking information from his book and saying he’s willing to testify - I don’t see him having any clear impetus to lie under oath about what he saw while serving as Trump’s NSA. Also, Bolton figures to be involved in politics for the foreseeable future, and he is probably looking at the long haul. No reason to think he wants to perjure himself.

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@oralloy,

Congress mandated the aid for an ally in deep danger of conquest. Trump had noo right to withhold it for no apparent reason, endangering our ally and our national securi t y and only released it after he was caught.

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@snood,

Bolton isn't a lefty (boy I'll say) so attacks on his credibility have to take the form of "deep state" or "disgruntled former employee" or "books sales".

But it is an interesting move for Bolton to write this book as he's written it and with the charges he makes. If the release of this information results in Bolton testifying or in an extended court case to prevent him from testifying, much of the Republican world is going to do what they can to hurt and cripple him. Just imagine what Trump - Vengeance is Us - will do.

So, it's puzzling. As one writer pointed out, Bolton was tutored by Dick Cheney in the covert murder of opponents. Is it possible that some want to get Trump out of the way in order to do a conservative re-set or rebranding? Is Liz Cheney really, really hungry for power? Much of this stuff is out of sight, of course, so god knows.

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@MontereyJack,

His actions were reckless dumb self serving illegal and against the national interest. And on the "if it wadles like a duck and quacks like a duck''" principle its clear why he did it too.

1 Reply

@blatham,

Quote:

Starr's refusal to acknowledge his own personal agency in the Clinton impeachment - what led to it and how it developed with him in charge.

That is all a matter of record and known. What about it? What problems do you see? More propaganda, like someone is hiding something which is in plain sight as is any information pertaining to it.

Try again

1 Reply

@MontereyJack,

Quote:

His actions were reckless dumb self serving illegal and against the national interest. And on the "if it wadles like a duck and quacks like a duck''" principle its clear why he did it too.

Adam Schiff, right?

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@MontereyJack,

Spare me the fake and self serving piousness about "allies". Before Mr. Trump was elected, progressives were siding Russia in this invasion.

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@coldjoint,

I have finally figured out why cj can't see all the crooked Trump information out there. He can't read.

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@RABEL222,

Quote:

He can't read.

Yeah, that's it. Sorry, I am not a kid growing up in your shithole Democratic run cities. They are the ones who can't read.

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@coldjoint,

No silly. Duplicitous Donny of course

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@oralloy,

That is absolute nonsense. Never happened.

1 Reply

@MontereyJack,

Let's see some examples of progressives opposing Russia's invasions before Mr. Trump was elected.

Or even an example of progressives supporting Mr. Obama's feeble stance against Russia's invasions.

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Hmmm.

Quote:

RedState
@RedState
Looks like the Democrat party is ready to screw @BernieSanders AGAIN just like they did in 2016. Poor Bern

Now why would they be trolling that particular meme? Can't quite figure it out.

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@blatham,

I expect that if you hadn't posted this someone else would have, while breathlessly running down every other candidate and insulting other A2K members.

1 Reply

@hightor,

I believe I can recall such a one.

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@blatham,

I don't think the republican vengeance will take that direction, they have to know, it won't work. No, they are even as we speak, doubling up attacks on Biden/Hunter. Secretly Bernie has to be glad of that subject with Biden as it helps him too.

If Bernie gets the Democrat primary election, as hightor said on another thread, Trump and Republicans will go after Bernie Sanders will everything single thing they can to keep Sanders, the socialist, from getting elected. Whereas with Biden, there would probably be some never-Trumpers to go on Biden side.

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@blatham,

Quote:

Now why would they be trolling that particular meme? Can't quite figure it out.

Because it is true could be one reason.

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@blatham,

I look at it this way,
Bolton is protected by Executive Privilege and I wonder if his testimony can be stopped as a result? If so, I would assume Bolton knows that and as he wishes to continue a life in politics as an unelected bureaucrat (deep state figure?) he has a small window of freedom to operate in.

Nothing in his book counts as sworn testimony, merely hearsay. So he can write and leak anything he wishes. It appears that he and Trump had some differences of opinion, and this is why I am amazed at the number of lefties now crying to hear Bolton.

He is an extreme right war hawk. Many of the things that he and Trump disagreed with was how and when to kill large numbers of people (Pure conjecture) and how we should run many of the war campaigns we are in now.

It's all politics and you guys need to be careful where you hitch your horses.

1 Reply

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