blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jan, 2020 02:32 pm
@revelette3,
Well, attacks on Biden or Bernie or Warren etc will be the focus of right wing attacks, regardless of all else. That's a given. But I'm not speaking of this coming election. It was a surmise on what might explain Bolton's public revelations, the consequences for him in rightwing world and a possible explanation for it.
blatham
 
  3  
Reply Tue 28 Jan, 2020 02:54 pm
@McGentrix,
Bolton is a hawk and has been pretty much universally decried and despised for those opinions by those who don't share those opinions. I've seen at least one instance where a Fox person stated (or perhaps it was a chyron) that lefties now "love" Bolton. That's typical Fox, of course. But it's a false dilemma. I don't have to hate or disbelieve everything you say/think just because I disagree with lots of it.

As to executive privilege, Trump will try to go there but it's very unclear it applies in this situation as Bolton is no longer there and as he says he's willing to testify under oath at the trial.

0 Replies
 
revelette3
 
  2  
Reply Tue 28 Jan, 2020 03:09 pm
Executive Privilege does not apply to impeachable acts. Using money as leverage that has been appropriated by Congress to be given to Ukraine is an impeachable act if it is given for personal gain for foreign help with elections. Bolton has said in his book and he is willing to testify under oath to that effect, that Trump told him personally he was doing just that. All along you guy have been saying, it is just hearsay, no one heard personally from the President. Well, Bolton has heard directly from the President. He is backing up what all the others have already testified to under oath.

Trump Lawyer Jay Sekulow Argues John Bolton’s Book ‘Inadmissible’ In Senate Trial

0 Replies
 
revelette3
 
  2  
Reply Tue 28 Jan, 2020 03:13 pm
@blatham,
Well, on that I agree with Juan Cole. If Trump is removed, Pence is President. Bolton and Pence are more aligned on Iran and would be willing to go to all-out war with Iran. Next election, Bolton then could run for President.
blatham
 
  3  
Reply Tue 28 Jan, 2020 03:35 pm
@revelette3,
I'm not talking about a successful impeachment and thus Pence in the WH. I can't see that happening. Here's a perfect example of why. Referencing the Bolton revelation...
Quote:
A far more representative attitude in the Republican caucus was expressed by Roy Blunt, of Missouri, who said on Monday, "Unless there's a witness that's going to change the outcome, I can't imagine why we'd want to stretch this out for weeks and months."

With this tautology Senator Blunt gives away the game: All witness testimony to date -- all presented as part of the House impeachment proceedings -- has only strengthened the case against Mr. Trump, but Republicans will not vote to convict him under any circumstances. By definition, then, no witness in the Senate could possibly change the outcome.
NYT

Everyone else in right wing world who has any brains understands this as well. But those in that world who have some integrity also recognize that another four years of Trump will not only do perhaps irreparable damage to the nation/world but to the GOP as well. They do NOT want that to happen.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jan, 2020 05:18 pm
Bernie’s in the stratosphere on polling today.
Wonder why Dems and Reps are both together like Siamese Twins against the Democrat party overwhelming front runner?

Makes you think, doesn’t it?

Why do people who say they’re democrats prefer republicans?
revelette3
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jan, 2020 08:44 am
@Lash,
Bernie Sanders is benefiting from Fox News continually talking about Hunter Biden and the impeachment. It is not his fault, nevertheless, it is true.

Depending on how long the trial last, Biden might be out of the front runner for good. In that case, Bloomberg might get some of his voters after the Iowa and NH votes are in.

Or Bernie could be the front runner, then I am afraid we will have a Trump for a second term. He will not win against Trump. There are not enough voters who are as far left as he is in the general election. Just a fact.
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jan, 2020 08:55 am
@revelette3,
I think that is overly pessimistic. I could hold my nose and vote for Sanders and I think a lot of people who sat out the last election could do the same.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jan, 2020 09:05 am
@revelette3,
Quote:
He will not win against Trump.
Perhaps. But it is not a claim I would deem a certainty by any means.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 29 Jan, 2020 09:14 am
@revelette3,
revelette3 wrote:

Well, on that I agree with Juan Cole. If Trump is removed, Pence is President. Bolton and Pence are more aligned on Iran and would be willing to go to all-out war with Iran. Next election, Bolton then could run for President.

Actually, an unnamed source told the NY Times that Bolton wrote something... No one has actually seen any manuscripts or actual writing.
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Wed 29 Jan, 2020 09:23 am
@engineer,
I really don't think Sanders can pull together a broad enough coalition to overcome the Trump machine. The economy is the number one reason. While I don't think the economy is as strong as the stock market would lead one to believe, those numbers have a big psychological effect on voters. Sanders is basically promising an economic upheaval. Besides, the finger-wagging harangues have a rather limited appeal. I don't see him having the charisma to cause moderates to say, "What the hell, what do we have to lose?" and vote for someone who we know will be painted as a pro-Soviet leftover from the glory days of USAmerican radicalism. But, as you say, I could vote for him — I wouldn't even have to hold my nose.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Wed 29 Jan, 2020 09:25 am
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:
No one has actually seen any manuscripts or actual writing.
How, do you think, pre-publication review is done?
McGentrix
 
  0  
Reply Wed 29 Jan, 2020 09:32 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
No one has actually seen any manuscripts or actual writing.
How, do you think, pre-publication review is done?

Not by anonymous sources. Are you suggesting that the editor is the anonymous source?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jan, 2020 09:36 am
@McGentrix,
Quote:
Mr. Bolton’s explosive account of the matter at the center of Mr. Trump’s impeachment trial, the third in American history, was included in drafts of a manuscript he has circulated in recent weeks to close associates. He also sent a draft to the White House for a standard review process for some current and former administration officials who write books.

Multiple people described Mr. Bolton’s account of the Ukraine affair.
NYT

Quote:
The National Security Council denied Monday that any White House personnel outside of its purview had seen the manuscript of former national security adviser John Bolton's book that was submitted to the White House for review.
Axios

So, at the very least, the WH has a copy. And have had it for a month or more. If the manuscript is without any content embarrassing to the President, it would be rather odd that Trump, for one example, would be saying the content is false.
McGentrix
 
  0  
Reply Wed 29 Jan, 2020 09:43 am
@blatham,
Quote:
The Times does not claim to have actually seen the manuscript, however is basing its record on anonymous sources that claim to have actually offered The Times summaries.
revelette3
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jan, 2020 09:44 am
@engineer,
I could and would vote for Bernie certainly, a lot of democrats will. I am talking about swing voters in swing states which are not leftist states at all. I am also talking about some independents who lean more towards at least the center than left and some never Trumpers whom we have a small chance of getting with a more centrist democrat to run against Trump.

The impeachment will die down, our US voters do not have the longest memories, or at least, are not as intense a few weeks out with other news taking over the news.
revelette3
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jan, 2020 09:47 am
@McGentrix,
Well, I doubt the Times wants to hang their hats on something that could blow egg in their faces a few weeks down the line. I mean, it would be a really big explosion they wouldn't be able to ride out.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jan, 2020 09:54 am
Democrats struggle with how directly to knock Sanders
By BILL BARROW and ALEXANDRA JAFFE
https://apnews.com/b92e048e2147ecf258b390c456f87393

CEDAR FALLS, Iowa (AP) — As Bernie Sanders exudes confidence in his ability to win next week’s Iowa caucuses, his moderate rivals are struggling with how — and whether — to directly take on the progressive Vermont senator who some Democrats worry won’t be able to defeat President Donald Trump.

Former Vice President Joe Biden jabbed Sanders — without naming him — on the multitrillion-dollar cost of his most ambitious proposals, such as single-payer health insurance, tuition-free college and sweeping climate action.

... Across the state in Boone, Pete Buttigieg, the former mayor of South Bend, Indiana, also raised questions about Sanders’ electability — but only when pressed. ... “My focus is on the fact that my campaign is in the best position to beat Donald Trump,” Buttigieg told reporters when asked whether he believes Sanders would lose a general election. “My focus — while reporters, I’m sure, are eager to get me to do otherwise — is to remain as focused as possible on my own campaign.”

Sanders has long identified as a democratic socialist, and the prospect that he could win the caucuses and gain momentum heading into later contests has alarmed the establishment wing of the Democratic Party. But that anxiety was hard to detect on the campaign trail as Biden and Buttigieg, two of the leading moderate candidates, declined to take him head-on, opting instead to speak about the need to unify the party and the urgency of beating Trump.

That’s frustrating to those who would like to see the candidates take a stronger stand. [I wonder who THOSE mysterious folks are... :-)]

“It is shocking that no one besides us and a handful of others are willing to say what is evidently true, which is that he is a front-runner to win, and if he wins it’s going to be incredibly hard to beat Trump and hang onto our House majority,” said Matt Bennett, a co-founder of moderate think tank Third Way. [Mr Bennet can predict what will turn evidently true in the future; maybe he should play the lottery]

... Biden and Buttigieg know that Sanders will be emboldened if he wins the Iowa caucuses next Monday and the New Hampshire primary the following week. But each must also consider how he can stitch together a Democratic coalition in November with himself as the nominee. That means avoiding the kind of open animosity that party leaders believe hurt Hillary Clinton against Trump in 2016, well after she dispatched Sanders in an extended primary fight.

... Biden’s campaign has doubled down in recent weeks on the argument that he is the best-positioned Democrat to defeat Trump and help the party in down-ballot races. But his aides and supporters insist their strategy isn’t explicitly about Sanders.

“I think people are thinking about electability more,” said Iowa Attorney General Tom Miller, a Biden supporter. But he stopped short of saying there’s a “fear” of Sanders as nominee. “When Iowans start thinking about the fall ... people are starting to see that Joe would be much stronger than Bernie.”

... Attacking Sanders has proven difficult. He and Warren had a sort of non-aggression pact until she alleged recently that Sanders had told her privately in 2018 that a woman cannot win the presidency in 2020. Sanders disputes that account. Warren sticks by it, but raising the matter hasn’t noticeably propelled her in the race.

Still, Sanders’ campaign seemed to be readying for a counterstrike over the weekend, preemptively warning supporters that, as New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said at a canvass launch in Ankeny, “things are gonna get crazy.” ... Documentary filmmaker Michael Moore told supporters at a Saturday night rally that “the knives are out” for Sanders.
blatham
 
  3  
Reply Wed 29 Jan, 2020 10:44 am
@McGentrix,
You claimed no one had seen the manuscript. I corrected you.

You are hanging your hat on "unnamed sources". Fine. I could trot out all the times Trump has used "unnamed sources" but I don't think that's necessary. Not least because the book will be out in about two weeks.

But more significantly, if the WH has the manuscript (which they do) and if they are working so hard to disclaim the contents, then that ought to give you a clue that those contents are as reported.
snood
 
  6  
Reply Wed 29 Jan, 2020 11:26 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

I think that is overly pessimistic. I could hold my nose and vote for Sanders and I think a lot of people who sat out the last election could do the same.


I think there are a hell of a lot more people who didn’t have Bernie as their first choice who would support him than there are Bernie people who will support another candidate.
 

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