blatham
 
  3  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2020 06:35 am
So, we have Bolton's manuscript
Quote:
During a conversation in August with Mr. Trump, Mr. Bolton mentioned his concern over the delay of the $391 million in congressionally appropriated assistance to Ukraine as a deadline neared to send the money.

Mr. Trump replied that he preferred sending no assistance to Ukraine until officials had turned over all materials they had about the Russia investigation related to Mr. Biden and supporters of Hillary Clinton in Ukraine, referencing unfounded theories and other assertions that Rudolph W. Giuliani, his personal lawyer, had promoted about any Ukrainian efforts to damage Mr. Trump politically.


Quote:
Mr. Bolton wrote that Mr. Pompeo privately acknowledged to him last spring that Mr. Giuliani’s claims about Marie L. Yovanovitch, then the American ambassador to Ukraine, had no basis, including allegations that she was bad-mouthing Mr. Trump. Mr. Pompeo suggested to Mr. Bolton that Mr. Giuliani may have wanted Ms. Yovanovitch out because she might have been targeting his business clients in her anti-corruption efforts. Yet Mr. Pompeo still went through with Mr. Trump’s order to recall Ms. Yovanovitch last May.
NYT - Read the full reporting here

Personally, I'm just flabbergasted at these pieces of information. Who could have guessed?

These points above show that the Trump teams defense is bogus. There was a quid pro quo. And the refusal to allow Bolton to testify is clearly an instance of obstruction of justice.

And the chances that McConnell will allow testimony from Bolton?
blatham
 
  3  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2020 08:03 am
Gosh oh goodness. It appears that Pompeo wasn't telling the truth.
Quote:
Pompeo’s statement implied that Kelly had agreed before the interview to confine her questions to developments in Iran and that he would not be asked about other subjects. He made the same claim during the interview but Kelly pushed back, telling him she’d worked out a different arrangement with his staff.

But emails between Kelly and Pompeo’s press aide, Katie Martin, a day before the interview show that there was no such agreement and that Kelly made clear her intention to question Pompeo about other topics.

“Just wanted to touch base that we still intend to keep the interview to Iran tomorrow,” Martin wrote. “Know you just got back from Tehran so we would like to stick to Iran as the topic as opposed to jumping around. Is that something we can agree to?”

Kelly responded, “I am indeed just back from Tehran and plan to start there. Also Ukraine. And who knows what the news gods will serve up overnight. I never agree to take anything off the table.”...
WP

This sort of aggressive, bold lying is a feature of this government. And increasingly, it is a key mode of operation for the modern GOP.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2020 09:06 am
Quote:
Sam Stein
@samstein
Options for Senate Republicans tomorrow, when asked about the NYTs report on the Bolton book

1. Didn’t see it
2. It’s just a draft
3. The House should have gotten him to testify
4. It will just get bogged down in a court fight
5. Can’t trust a guy who was pushed out on bad terms
Sounds about right. But there'll be another, for certain. In fact, Trump has already thrown it out.
6. Bolton is motivated to sell books therefore what he says (if it's bad for Trump) must be ignored.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  4  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2020 09:23 am
This sounds right as well;

Quote:
emptywheel
@emptywheel
Trump faces a Catch-22:

If Bolton testifies, they now believe, everyone will be made to, and he may be removed.

If Bolton doesn't testify, the majority that wants witnesses will know it's a cover-up.


I expect they'll go with option two. The plan is obviously to get the trial over with ASAP and then mount a massive propaganda campaign with the theme, "It's over. He's innocent. No charges proved even remotely. It was a hoax all along. Time to get on with the nation's business. Dems and the mainstream media conspired to oust an elected president and they failed. They should never be trusted again. Go to Fox for the truth!"

The hope will be that any/all further revelations which will with certainty emerge subsequently can be ignored and covered up under this propaganda shitstorm.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2020 10:27 am
Further, on the post just above...
Quote:
President Donald Trump is already itching to broadcast the series finale of his impeachment.

In recent days, he and top White House aides have been considering how he should celebrate his presumed acquittal by the Republican-controlled Senate and whether he should deliver a rare Oval Office address to mark the occasion, according to three senior administration officials.

Trump has not settled on a specific plan yet, but the internal machinations show the extent to which the president remains focused on the details and optics of his ongoing impeachment trial — from the TV slot in which his lawyers argued his case to the performance of his legal team to the look and feel of a speech or ceremony marking the end of the months-long saga.

“The president is giving a lot of thought to where he goes when he is acquitted and vindicated,” a senior administration official said. “This isn’t a one-and-done moment. This will be a sustained exit from a long dreary impeachment process and a great reset to 2020 — not just the 2020 reelection but the 2020 domestic and international arena.
Politico

The bolded bits show the propaganda mode - Reality TV Special (perhaps with fireworks, jet flyovers, dancing porn stars, and rolling tanks)

The portion in red makes explicit that this will be an on-going propaganda initiative beginning with the TV EXTRAVAGANZA and continuing through until the election (and surely after, regardless of election outcome).
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2020 10:43 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Personally, I'm just flabbergasted at these pieces of information. Who could have guessed?


Apparently you are being sarcastic. If Bolton came out and said that Trump had done no such thing, you would be cursing him for lying or some other ****.

Bolton was unceremoniously fired and is now a bitter ex-employee trying to sell books. No credibility regardless of how much you splooge on the carpet about it.
snood
 
  6  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2020 11:27 am
@McGentrix,
Yvonovich (sp?) was deep state, so she had no credibility...
Parnas has no credibility because he’s just trying to get out of trouble...
Bolton has no credibility because he’s trying to sell a book.

One was an ambassador who had worked for both Dems and Republicans, and has been respected and lauded by both for decades.

One was an operative of the president’s personal attorney, with emails and audio recordings as receipts for everything he said.

One was a lifelong conservative hawk, handpicked by Trump for NSA.

If you would be honest there is no one whose testimony against Trump would be considered credible. Not because of how true or untrue their words are; and not because of any aspect of their resume or character. Just because they have testimony damning to Trump. And you can’t accept that.
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2020 11:40 am
@McGentrix,
Quote:
No credibility regardless of how much you splooge on the carpet about it.

Another example of McG's juvenile obsession with body fluids. Yup, nothing clinches an argument like sophomoric imagery. So clever.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2020 12:41 pm
Bernie Sanders and His Internet Army

At the start of his 2020 bid, the Vermont senator told his supporters that he condemned bullying. Is it his problem if many don’t seem to listen?

Quote:
The defense from Bernie Sanders was straightforward: It wasn’t me.

He had been milling about on the Senate floor one day in the summer of 2017 when a colleague, Kamala Harris, stepped toward him. “Do we have a problem?” Ms. Harris asked, according to Democrats familiar with the exchange.

Some prominent Sanders supporters had been flaming Ms. Harris publicly as the preferred choice of the corporate Democratic establishment against which Mr. Sanders had long railed, a view amplified among Sanders-boosting accounts across social media. “Pre-emptive strike,” one person wrote on the popular SandersForPresident Reddit group, where Sanders fans were sharing details of Ms. Harris’s recent fund-raising swing in the Hamptons with former Hillary Clinton donors. “Start the conversation now, end it before 2020.”

Mr. Sanders assured Ms. Harris that there was no issue, the Democrats familiar with their conversation said. He insisted that he could not control how his followers communicated.

But two years later, as both senators pursued the party’s 2020 presidential nomination and Ms. Harris returned to the Hamptons to collect campaign checks, Mr. Sanders broadcast an observation of his own after Ms. Harris raised doubts about his “Medicare for all” plan. “I don’t go to the Hamptons to raise money from billionaires,” he tweeted last August, elevating a message that supporters had already been pushing. Thousands of retweets followed.

(...)

Former Senator Barbara Boxer of California, a Clinton supporter who had been at the Nevada convention, said she worried for her safety after being booed offstage.

“After the incident, Bernie and I talked on the phone, and he said, ‘I can’t believe that, my supporters would never do that,’” Ms. Boxer recalled. “I said, ‘Well, you ought to get to the bottom of it, Bernie.’”

She said Mr. Sanders responded, “Those cannot be my people.”

By early 2016, the behavior of Mr. Sanders’s online supporters, short-handed in the media as “Bernie Bros,” had become a stubborn trope, diagnosed as a political problem at the highest levels of the senator’s campaign, even as aides largely blamed Mrs. Clinton’s operation for overblowing it.

(...)


nyt
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2020 01:32 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:
If you would be honest there is no one whose testimony against Trump would be considered credible. Not because of how true or untrue their words are; and not because of any aspect of their resume or character. Just because they have testimony damning to Trump. And you can’t accept that.

I consider Mr. Bolton credible. I know very little about the other two.

I don't consider any of their testimony damning in any way. If it is OK for Democrats to use the law as a weapon against their political opponents, then it's also OK for Mr. Trump to do so.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  0  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2020 01:39 pm
@snood,
How much credibility does Bolton have with you?
RABEL222
 
  2  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2020 01:43 pm
While reading some literature I was reminded that the early congress chose the eagle over the turkey as our national symbol. We should rethink this decision considering today's political climate and choose the turkey as our national symbol. Until we get rid of Trump that is.
0 Replies
 
revelette3
 
  2  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2020 01:48 pm
So far, Biden and Sanders are quite clearly leading the polls. Nationally on a WP/ABC poll, Biden is 28 and Sanders is 24. Next is Warren who has gone down big time at 11 but then oddly, Bloomberg comes next at 8.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/context/washington-post-abc-news-poll-jan-20-23-2020/50b73242-0f99-4709-b8bc-7e0d56bfe0f3/
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2020 01:49 pm
@McGentrix,
There was already significant evidence to bolster what Bolton has charged.
0 Replies
 
revelette3
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2020 01:50 pm
@McGentrix,
Back at you, how much does he have with you? There has already been plenty of evidence to prove Trump did what he has been accused of. This latest should persuade any logical republican. You guys can't really refute it without seeming to be stubbornly idol worshippers of Trump. The deep state theory has crumbled.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2020 02:02 pm
@revelette3,
I've not seen it proved that Trump was trying to have the Bidens investigated for political reasons, as opposed to genuinely thinking that the Bidens were engaged in criminal activity.

But even if that does manage to be proved, so what? If it's OK for Democrats to try to get Mr. Trump investigated for political reasons, then it's also OK for Mr. Trump to do it right back at them.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2020 02:03 pm
@revelette3,
revelette3 wrote:
So far, Biden and Sanders are quite clearly leading the polls. Nationally on a WP/ABC poll, Biden is 28 and Sanders is 24. Next is Warren who has gone down big time at 11 but then oddly, Bloomberg comes next at 8.

Buttigieg is edging out Biden for second place in New Hampshire.

No one ever gets the nomination without coming in first or second in New Hampshire.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2020 02:24 pm
@revelette3,
If Trump's wife testified against him, or one of his children, or if Mike Pompeo did, or if anyone in Trump's cabinet or legal staff did along with submission of incriminating documentation, they'd all receive the same species of rejection that McG offers here.

This has nothing to do with quality of evidence. It is entirely a matter of tribal loyalty and thus willing blindness.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2020 02:27 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:
This has nothing to do with quality of evidence. It is entirely a matter of tribal loyalty and thus willing blindness.

That is incorrect. It is entirely a matter of there being nothing wrong about what Mr. Trump is accused of doing.

It doesn't matter how much proof and documentation you supply to establish that I am breathing in oxygen and exhaling carbon dioxide right now.

It will not change the reality that I am committing no wrongdoing by doing so.
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Reply Mon 27 Jan, 2020 02:38 pm
@oralloy,
Nonsense. Forcing someone to do something wrong entirely fornyour own personal gain is widely regarded as illegal. As is denying someone something legal they desperately need, holding that denial as leverage over them. Trump only cares about himself, not the country.
 

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