Progressives (Liberals)

@Olivier5,

Quote:

Anti-bernites are pretty toxic too, for that matter.

I see little to no evidence at all for a comparison that suggests equivalence. This site is an example. No one posts constant vilifications in the manner Lash does. I doubt you can show that Biden's or Warren's campaigns have an analogue to Dave Sirota.

Quote:

The good thing is, the American people is not going to elect bernites nor anti-bernites for president. They're going to elect Bernie for president.

Tongue in cheek, I gather. But you ignore the destructiveness of such ugly internecine warfare - which is the risk we are speaking of - and how that by itself increases the chances of a Trump win. Which is precisely why bad-faith actors who wish a Trump win are engaged in promoting such internecine conflict.

4 Replies

@blatham,

As I just said

Quote:

Which is precisely why bad-faith actors who wish a Trump win are engaged in promoting such internecine conflict.

Quote:

House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) believes that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) is holding back the articles of impeachment against President Trump to … sabotage Sen. Bernie Sanders (D-VT)?

In an interview on Fox News’ “Sunday Morning Futures,” McCarthy recalled when Democratic National Convention chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz had to resign the night before the 2016 nomination convention began, before accusing Democrats of “doing the exact same thing right now” by “cheating” Sanders.

“Remember what happened in the last nomination process where the DNC chairman, Debbie Wasserman Schultz had to resign the night before the nomination convention started because they had found out they had cheated senator Bernie Sanders from the opportunity to become the nominee?” McCarthy said. “They are doing the exact same thing right now.”

TPM

We can all safely assume that McCarthy isn't kept awake at nights worrying about maltreatment of Bernie Sanders. What he's up to is fomenting discord on the left. Specifically, he is urging Sanders' supporters to hate senior Dems and to see them as the enemy.

1 Reply

@blatham,

Here’s a little insight for you.

You all agree. That’s why you aren’t toxic with one another. The ‘toxicity’ on your part is judged on how you treat the one who disagrees...

Think about how you treat me, make ludicrous accusations, and gang up and excoriate Trump voters. In a pack.

Your self-awareness on the level of a small child’s.

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@Lash,

Well said. Thumbs up.

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@blatham,

I don't get that at all. How in the world would the timing of sending the impeachment articles affect Bernie Sander's running for president at all? Why him specifically, moreover, how would it affect any of those running for office? Crazy days sometimes.

3 Replies

@blatham,

The thing is: the constant whining from anti-bernites about how toxic the bernites are, is just as toxic as the phenomenon it criticizes. Look at the latest from Warren: she acts as totally betrayed because some guy dared say that she doesn't appeal to all potential dem voters. Rolling Eyes

That's not "ugly internecine warfare" by any stretch of the imagination, and Warren's ridiculous complaint about it shows that she's loosing her cool.

And as the primaries heat up, more people are going to loose their cool. So I repeat: nobody is going to vote for the Bernites, the Warrenites or the Bidenettes to be president, okay? Focus on the darn candidates, on their programs, on their chances, not on how imperfect their followers are.

1 Reply

@Lash,

Quote:

That’s why you aren’t toxic with one another.

The subject isn't how we posters address each other. The subject is how your posts stand out from everyone else's here in your eagerness to spread bile, constantly, regarding other candidates and Democrats. You do, every day, what McCarthy is doing in the quote above. Nobody else here sets to such attacks on your candidate.

0 Replies

@revelette3,

Quote:

I don't get that at all.

There's no reason to get it. He's not making a rational argument. He's merely forwarding a story to foment discord and anger on the left. But it's important to recognize that he's not just pulling this device out of thin air. He's piggybacking on attempts by others to forward the same sort of story. It's the simplest of covert strategies - divide and conquer.

1 Reply

The following is a link from the Times Editorial Board where Sanders on Dec 3 spent 90 minutes talking about his policies and how plans to implement them if he is President.

The senator from Vermont offers an agenda of transformational change, promising to be as grass-roots as he is stubborn.

From what I read from his answers; the way he intends to get his agenda passed is going to a lot of states rallying people to his agenda rather than trying to deal with Mitch McConnell in the senate. He thinks if enough of a revolution of people get behind him, he can make the senate (with presumably Mitch McConnel still in charge unless democrats manage to retake the senate which would be a blessing) agree to sign legislation they have long held in contempt. As the interviewer pointed out, it hasn't worked for gun control measures or other bi-partisan popular things.

Now if we can get more in the house and more in the Senate, then his policies have a much better chance of being turned into reality. If we have super majorities, then we are assured.

My point is, Bernie has been preaching his policies for years, he has a huge following, but not enough to make a him a clear front runner now. So, how is he going to get enough of a people behind his policies as President to make a ground swell of a revolutionary change even supposing all other factors are met? Would he be open to compromise just a little in order to get things passed?

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Thanks for your valuable advice on proper focus. I don't know what I've been thinking all this while.

2 Replies

@blatham,

You’re so fortunate to have someone who’s so much more knowledgeable and experienced so selflessly present you with guidance in these complicated times.

1 Reply

@revelette3,

Quote:

So, how is he going to get enough of a people behind his policies as President to make a ground swell of a revolutionary change even supposing all other factors are met?

That's the problem. Many Ron Paul supporters or Nader supporters or Perot supporters had faith their candidates could revolutionize the country because of the romanticism of the endeavor and their faith in the exceptionalism of their candidates.

1 Reply

@snood,

It's how I manage to carry on. I'm not heavy. I'm his brother.

0 Replies

@revelette3,

revelette3 wrote:

I don't get that at all. How in the world would the timing of sending the impeachment articles affect Bernie Sander's running for president at all? Why him specifically, moreover, how would it affect any of those running for office? Crazy days sometimes.

If Sanders and Warren are stuck in the Senate sitting as judges in an impeachment trial, then they will be unable to campaign in person in Iowa and New Hampshire.

0 Replies

@blatham,

blatham wrote:

revelette3 wrote:
I don't get that at all.

There's no reason to get it. He's not making a rational argument.

So I guess we can mark Blatham down as being in favor of preventing Sanders and Warren from campaigning in person in Iowa and New Hampshire.

Anyone else?

1 Reply

Right now Real Clear Politics has an average of polls with Biden ahead at 29.3; Sanders 20.3 and Warren 14.8. So I imagine Warren is feeling the pressure. I think she is out. It is now down to Sanders and Biden. IMO

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/2020_democratic_presidential_nomination-6730.html

2 Replies

@oralloy,

Well even supposing your argument is correct, there are other candidates who are senators. Moreover, it was always the case that senators would be stuck, as you say, in the senate during the trial. Why anyone imagines it is going to be long drawn out affair with Mitch in charge is beyond me. It is going to be wham, bam, thank you Mitch, for Trump in the impeachment trial.

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@revelette3,

An average of multiple states isn't terribly useful. What matters is what polls say specifically in Iowa and New Hampshire.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Didn't Sanders do well in one of those states in 2016? He went on to loose in the primary. I think too much credit is given to those two starting states. I mean do you think Buttigieg has a better chance than Biden even though he is ahead of Biden in Iowa? It is just the media coverage those states get that carries a supposed momentum.

Anyway, in NH Sanders is 18, Biden is 19 and in Iowa Sanders is 20, Biden 15.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/elections/

1 Reply

@revelette3,

revelette3 wrote:

Right now Real Clear Politics has an average of polls with Biden ahead at 29.3; Sanders 20.3 and Warren 14.8. So I imagine Warren is feeling the pressure. I think she is out. It is now down to Sanders and Biden. IMO

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/2020_democratic_presidential_nomination-6730.html

How progressive the Democrat party is. Down to two old white men.

3 Replies

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