coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 13 Dec, 2019 05:17 pm
@Sturgis,
Quote:
Another unknown.

No, that is not an unknown. It is a fact more Blacks are going to vote for Trump. Some actually want a job and a real family. They know Trump gives them the best chance at that. More Hispanics know that also.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 13 Dec, 2019 05:18 pm
@blatham,
Quote:
The more important issue is black voter turnout, not how many will go for Trump.

Bullshit, Trump only needs 12% to win the election.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Dec, 2019 07:39 pm
Haven’t been reading along in this thread, so don’t know if this already came up...
Bernie endorsed Cenk Uygur’s(Loudmouthed “Young Turk”) run for Congress yesterday - then retracted that endorsement today.
Guess Bernie very quickly discovered what most people knew about Uygur already. That he’s a jerk with a long history of expressing a sick attitude toward sex and women.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-cenk-uygur-retracts-endorsement_n_5df40434e4b03aed50ee3afa

Jumping to Uygur’s support, then recoiling like he touched a hot stove sure isn’t a good look for the Bernster.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Dec, 2019 09:36 pm
@snood,
Brief mentions, snood. But as you likely know, there are many previous links to his videos on this thread. He was a vocal Sanders supporter. I actually didn't know about this aspect of his history but I was never fond of the man because of his style of rhetoric - loud and uncareful. It's really a talk radio style.

Still, I don't hang this one on Sanders. He's got rather a lot on his plate like any presidential candidate and he was clearly no more knowledgeable about the guy than I was. Sanders' team however doesn't get a pass. They should have done much better vetting before encouraging Sanders to endorse. It would be interesting to know who screwed up.

snood
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Dec, 2019 09:59 pm
@blatham,
So the man doesn’t get own any accountability for his decisions- just his team? Damn, that’s a cushy deal.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Dec, 2019 10:08 pm
@snood,
For me, in a case like this, I wouldn't count such a thing as a failing of any significance for Sanders himself. Different if he'd picked the guy as his comms director or some such.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Dec, 2019 10:24 pm
@blatham,
If Bernie is nominated Trump will be a shoe in. The republicans will show all his communist attachments while ignoring the fact Trump has his nose up Putins ass.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Dec, 2019 04:36 am
Rev, of course you weren’t stupid to bring up the significance of the black vote. Every single analyst in America knows the democrats can’t win without them.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Dec, 2019 04:43 am
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2019/11/25/why-the-race-for-black-voters-is-the-most-important-democratic-primary-of-them-all/amp/

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-gop-stops-pretending-it-wants-black-votes-or-for-black-folks-to-vote-at-all?source=articles&via=rss

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/identities/2019/11/4/20926701/black-voters-democratic-primary-2020

The Black Vote



0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Dec, 2019 05:17 am
If there are any progressives reading here, consider how fortunate we are to have actual news reported by truthout and Truthdig.

I’m concerned that it won’t be long before we’re stuck with the lies and bias of corporate state-run ‘news’ if we don’t take action.

Please help this brilliant organizations stay afloat.

$5 from readers would be enough.

https://truthout.org/articles/progressives-rebel-as-house-hands-trump-war-spending-package/

Merry Christmas, truth.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Dec, 2019 05:35 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

Rev, of course you weren’t stupid to bring up the significance of the black vote. Every single analyst in America knows the democrats can’t win without them.


The person who attacked Rev is trying to hide it.
How cowardly.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Dec, 2019 05:52 am
@RABEL222,
I'm well aware of the possibility but we'll have to be much further ahead in this cycle for me to conclude that's likely.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Sat 14 Dec, 2019 06:23 am
No one "attacked" revelette for bringing up "the black vote". I did find this other comment questionable:

Quote:
Wtf black people are trump voters??


Gee, you mean there were some black voters who hated Hillary so much that they actually voted against her as opposed to sitting the election out? Anyone who actually looks at the numbers and doesn't subscribe to a mythic black voter stereotype knows that Republican candidates for president regularly draw 8% - 12% of the black vote (4% - 5% when Obama was on the ballot). The idea that anyone can expect 99+% support from any demographic group is myopic and attempts to change a loose grouping of free-thinking individuals into a monolithic bloc of automatic supporters. There are Jews who are critical of Israel, there are Catholics who support contraception, there are Hispanic who favor stricter border security.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Dec, 2019 06:32 am
Boris Johnson and the Coming Trump Victory in 2020

In the postindustrial wasteland, the working class embraced an old Etonian mouthing about unleashed British potential.

Quote:
Donald Trump, in his telling, could have shot somebody on Fifth Avenue and won. Boris Johnson could mislead the queen. He could break his promise to get Britain out of Europe by Oct. 31. He could lie about Turks invading Britain and the cost of European Union membership. He could make up stories about building 40 new hospitals. He could double down on the phantom $460 million a week that Brexit would deliver to the National Health Service — and still win a landslide Tory electoral victory not seen since Margaret Thatcher’s triumph in 1987.

The British, or at least the English, did not care. Truth is so 20th century. They wanted Brexit done; and, formally speaking, Johnson will now take Britain out of Europe by Jan. 31, 2020, even if all the tough decisions on relations with the union will remain. Johnson was lucky. In the pathetic, emetic Jeremy Corbyn, the soon-to-depart Labour Party leader, he faced perhaps the worst opposition candidate ever. In the Tory press, he had a ferocious friend prepared to overlook every failing. In Brexit-weary British subjects, whiplashed since the 2016 referendum, he had the perfect receptacle for his “get Brexit done.”

Johnson was also skillful, blunting Nigel Farage’s far-right Brexit Party, which stood down in many seats, took a lot of Labour votes in the seats where it did run, and ended up with nothing. The British working class, concentrated in the Midlands and the North, abandoned Labour and Corbyn’s socialism for the Tories and Johnson’s nationalism.

In the depressed provinces of institutionalized precariousness, workers embraced an old Etonian mouthing about unleashed British potential. Not a million miles from blue-collar heartland Democrats migrating to Trump the millionaire and America First demagogy.
Sign up for David Leonhardt's newsletter

That’s not the only parallel with American politics less than 11 months from the election. Johnson concentrated all the Brexit votes. By contrast, the pro-Remain vote was split between Corbyn’s internally divided Labour Party, the hapless Liberal Democrats, and the Scottish National Party. For anybody contemplating the divisions of the Democratic Party as compared with the Trump movement’s fanatical singleness of purpose, now reinforced by the impeachment proceedings, this can only be worrying.

The clear rejection of Labour’s big-government socialism also looks ominous for Democrats who believe the party can lurch left and win. The British working class did not buy nationalized railways, electricity distribution and water utilities when they could stick it to some faceless bureaucrat in Brussels and — in that phrase as immortal as it is meaningless — take back their country.

It’s a whole new world. To win, liberals have to touch people’s emotions rather than give earnest lessons. They have to cease being arid. They have to refresh and connect. It’s not easy.

Facebook reaches about one-third of humanity. It is more powerful than any political party — and it’s full of untruths, bigotry and nonsense. As Sacha Baron Cohen, the British actor, said last month of the social media behemoths: “The truth is that these companies won’t fundamentally change because their entire business model relies on generating more engagement, and nothing generates more engagement than lies, fear and outrage.”

That’s the story of Brexit, a national tragedy. That’s the story of Johnson, the man of no convictions. That’s the story of Trump, who makes puppets of people through manipulation of outrage and disregard for truth. That’s the story of our times. Johnson gets and fits those times better than most. He’s a natural.

“Brexit and Trump were inextricably linked in 2016, and they are inextricably linked today,” Steve Bannon told me. “Johnson foreshadows a big Trump win. Working-class people are tired of their ‘betters’ in New York, London, Brussels telling them how to live and what to do. Corbyn the socialist program, not Corbyn the man, got crushed. If Democrats don’t take the lesson, Trump is headed for a Reagan-like ’84 victory.”

I still think Trump can be beaten, but not from way out left and not without recognition that, as Hugo Dixon, a leader of the now defeated fight for a second British referendum, put it: “There is a crisis of liberalism because we have not found a way to connect to the lives of people in the small towns of the postindustrial wasteland whose traditional culture has been torn away.”

Johnson, even with his 80-seat majority, has problems. His victory reconciled the irreconcilable. His moneyed coterie wants to turn Britain into free-market Singapore on the Thames. His new working-class constituency wants rule-Britannia greatness combined with state-funded support. That’s a delicate balancing act. The breakup of Britain has become more likely. The strong Scottish National Party showing portends a possible second Scottish referendum on independence.

This time I would bet on the Scots bidding farewell to little England. And then there’s the small matter of what Brexit actually means. Johnson will need all his luck with that.

As my readers know, I am a passionate European patriot who sees the union as the greatest achievement of the second half of the 20th century, and Britain’s exit as an appalling act of self-harm. But I also believe in democracy. Johnson took the decision back to the people and won. His victory must be respected. The fight for freedom, pluralism, the rule of law, human rights, a free press, independent judiciaries, breathable air, peace, decency and humanity continues — and has only become more critical now that Britain has marginalized itself irreversibly in a fit of nationalist delusion.

nyt/cohen
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Dec, 2019 08:30 am
Cenk Uygur

Verified account

@cenkuygur
11h11 hours ago
More
I am deeply humbled by all your support today.

Today was the biggest donation day since launch weekend, with donations averaging $23.

They are trying to force me out of the race because they know I'll fight for you.

Jokes on them, I'm not going away.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Dec, 2019 08:38 am
@Brand X,
I hear he told Bernie, Ro, and the others who endorsed him to withdraw so association with him wouldn’t damage them.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Dec, 2019 11:46 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Boris Johnson and the Coming Trump Victory in 2020

In the postindustrial wasteland, the working class embraced an old Etonian mouthing about unleashed British potential.

It appears to me that the NYT author in the piece you posted is mostly indignant about the rejection of the ideas and leaders of the liberal elites - of both Britain and the United States - by the great unwashed population who, somehow saw the vacuity of his Liberal elite's mostly authoritarian prescriptions for the "welfare" of, what they believe should be, a subservient public. Unfounded self-satisfaction, coupled with rejection by one's perceived inferiors are a painful combination. I hope he gets over it.

I did like his somewhat acid "truth is so 20th century " comment. Mostly it revealed the author's profound complacency and ignorance. The late, unlamented 20th century saw unusually widespread mass suffering inflicted on peoples by authoritarian Progressives of Marxist and Fascist dispositions who were sure that they alone knew what was best for everyone else, and that only their concepts for human organization & behavior could be allowed to prevail …. or exist. This is hardly truth, though I'm confident that the author had only his diluted versions of these prescriptions in mind when he made his absurd point.

There is indeed a major political realignment going on in the western world and beyond, of which those in the UK and The United States are but currently prominent examples. I believe the "parallels" between contemporary events in the U. S. and the U.K. to which the author refers are but elements in a larger ongoing process elements of which are visible in Turkey, Hungary, Poland, Italy, and even in the internal domestic politics of France and Germany.

The author concludes that to prevail progressive liberal elites will have to change their methods and make a stronger visceral appeal to the unwashed masses, as opposed to what he appears to assume are the sublime intellectual elements of progressive "truth". He appears to have learned nothing from ongoing events - a fairly reliable prescription for failure.
coldjoint
 
  0  
Reply Sat 14 Dec, 2019 12:03 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
a fairly reliable prescription for failure.

The NYT does not deal in fact. It pushes the tired narratives that are as good as dead and kept on life support by the hacks the paper employs.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Dec, 2019 12:29 pm
@coldjoint,
That's why Mr, Cohen's articles get into the paper.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Sat 14 Dec, 2019 01:12 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:

Johnson, even with his 80-seat majority, has problems. His victory reconciled the irreconcilable. His moneyed coterie wants to turn Britain into free-market Singapore on the Thames. His new working-class constituency wants rule-Britannia greatness combined with state-funded support. That’s a delicate balancing act. The breakup of Britain has become more likely. The strong Scottish National Party showing portends a possible second Scottish referendum on independence.

Care to address this contradiction and suggest how it may play out?
 

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