edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sun 17 Nov, 2019 09:38 pm
Yusuf
@yusufneedsarest
·
18m
I want every human being to have clean air, clean water, healthy food, safe shelter, comprehensive healthcare and childcare, gainful employment, thriving wages, secure retirement and accountable government. I know right from wrong and I'll never let anyone ever tell me otherwise.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 05:10 am
Sanders’s Climate Ambitions Thrill Supporters. Experts Aren’t Impressed.

Quote:
WASHINGTON — Senator Bernie Sanders’s $16 trillion vision for arresting global warming would put the government in charge of the power sector and promise that, by 2030, the country’s electricity and transportation systems would run entirely on wind, solar, hydropower or geothermal energy, with the fossil fuel industry footing much of the bill much as Mexico was to pay for the border wall.

Climate scientists and energy economists say the plan is technically impractical, politically unfeasible, and possibly ineffective.

Yet the criticism does not appear to bother many of the young voters who will have an important role in selecting a Democratic presidential candidate, and who overwhelmingly place climate change at the top of their priority lists, according to polls.

“He has some really great ideas that may not be passed, but it’s definitely stuff that needs to be brought up,” said Chandler Condon, a 25-year-old supporter who traveled from Denver to Des Moines last week for a climate rally with Mr. Sanders.

“People saying that it’s too radical, it’s like, well, we need that radical change,” she said.

David Victor, a professor of international relations at the University of California San Diego and a climate adviser to Pete Buttigieg, the mayor of South Bend, Ind., called that “the big challenge for serious policy in the Democratic Party.”

“The progressive wing wants radical change, and climate change is one of those areas where this has really been the most palpable,” he said. “The Sanders plan claims to deliver radical change, but it can’t work in the real world.”

Mr. Sanders is not a newcomer to the climate issue; he has spent decades fighting, largely unsuccessfully, for ambitious legislation to increase clean energy, reduce carbon emissions, and end fossil fuel subsidies. He distinguished himself in the 2016 Democratic primaries by calling for a tax on carbon emissions and declaring global warming a national emergency.

This time, he faces a crowded field of candidates vying to outdo one another on global warming. But Mr. Sanders seems to have cemented his status as the climate candidate with the most expensive plan, an early embrace of the Green New Deal and a rally last weekend with Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the Green New Deal’s most prominent champion.

On Thursday Mr. Sanders and Ms. Ocasio-Cortez introduced a 10-year, $180 billion “Green New Deal” for public housing, the first major effort to bring the vision of grappling with both climate change and income inequality into legislation. The bill would provide for retrofitting one million units of federally-owned housing.

Joshua Orton, a spokesman for Mr. Sanders, said critics were failing to see that momentum is already moving toward dramatic action. The price of renewable energy is falling. Technology is improving. And the public is increasingly demanding action.

“Many critics are working from a set of pessimistic, establishment political assumptions that will, frankly, result in disaster,” he said. “The current model is unsustainable, and it’s wrong to assume that the plan accepts the status quo in terms of the costs and technology of today.”

But to most climate change experts, Mr. Sanders’s promise to reduce American emissions by 71 percent in a decade and to fully convert to renewable energy by 2050 may win high marks for ambition, but major elements of his plan to get there are implausible.

The heart of Mr. Sanders’s plan, a government-run effort to build, manage and distribute renewable energy on a vast scale, would cost more than $2 trillion if it could pass muster in Congress and, several economists said, it might not even curb emissions.

His rejection of nuclear energy and technology to capture carbon emissions would make his carbon-reduction targets much harder. His notion of paying for renewable energy by “making the fossil fuel industry pay for their pollution” is vague. And, economists said, his climate plan fails to consider his larger agenda, such as the new infrastructure projects in his economic plan that would create a burst of new emissions. High-speed rail, wind turbines and mass transit need steel and concrete, the production of which requires energy.

“He’s trying to set a marker in terms of the pace and scale of spending that he’s proposing,” said Jesse Jenkins, an energy systems engineer and assistant professor at Princeton University. But, he added, “I don’t think that represents a very nuanced understanding of the set of challenges that we face.”

Paul Hawken, the author of Project Drawdown, which analyzes solutions to global warming, said, “His sense of urgency in here is correct, in my opinion. But you can take that sense of urgency and make it more effective.”

Joel Payne, a Democratic strategist, said Mr. Sanders was more focused on signaling his ambitions to the party’s liberal wing than sweating policy details.

“People who care about these issues want a warrior,” Mr. Payne said. “Whether or not the battle plans they draw up exactly check out is kind of beside the point.”

The foundation of Mr. Sanders’s climate change plan is using the federal government to build and generate renewable energy, and sell it to publicly owned distribution systems, with preferential prices for utilities that pledge to break themselves of fossil fuels. The “greed” of profit-driven electric utilities, he has argued, has made them underinvest in the electric grid while clinging to dirty energy.

Mr. Sander’s plan envisions expanding the four existing federal agencies that market electric power, known as federal Power Marketing Administrations, as well as the Tennessee Valley Authority, a government-owned corporation. He would create a fifth such agency that would spend $1.52 trillion on developing renewable energy and another $852 billion on technology like advanced batteries to store energy for days when the sun does not shine or the wind does not blow.

Energy experts say the problems are multifold. Congress would have to create and fund these new entities, a heavy lift even with a Congress in Democratic control.

Moreover, pressure from Washington would not necessarily affect utilities’ likelihood of adopting clean energy. Municipal power boards reflect their communities, so while liberal towns might demand greater levels of renewable energy, rural cooperatives in conservative states quite likely would not.

“I just don’t see that getting off the ground,” said Severin Borenstein, a professor at the Haas School of Business of the University of California, Berkeley.

Not everyone sees doom in Mr. Sander’s nationalization of the power sector. Daniel Kammen, an energy expert at the University of California, Berkeley, called it “audacious but doable.”

Noah Kaufman, a researcher at Columbia University who worked on climate change in the Obama administration’s White House Council on Environmental Quality, said Mr. Sanders’s plan recognized that the planet could not afford to wait for market forces to find solutions.

“Climate change presents risks that are big and that are scary, and for that reason it’s being talked about like a crisis,” he said. “He’s proposing policies that match that rhetoric.”

Other analysts criticized Mr. Sanders’s rejection of nuclear energy and technology to capture and store carbon emissions. His plan calls both of those “false solutions” to climate change and calls for a moratorium on the renewal of nuclear power plant licenses.

Yet nuclear power currently accounts for 20 percent of the nation’s energy mix and more than half of its carbon-free power. Allowing aging plants to close would likely mean that natural gas, a fossil fuel, would fill the void and emissions would rise.

“The last thing you want to do is be righteous about how you feel about nuclear,” Mr. Hawken said.

Michael Oppenheimer, a professor of geoscience and international affairs at Princeton University, said Mr. Sanders’s plan did not appear to take political realities into account. He also said he was disappointed that Mr. Sanders no longer supported a carbon tax, a position he embraced in 2016. Economists say a fee on the burning of fossil fuels is the most efficient way to drive down global warming, but Mr. Sanders says that would not work quickly enough.

Still, Mr. Oppenheimer said, Mr. Sanders wins points on vision.

“When I talk about these issues I have to be realistic, but that’s why I don’t run for president,” he said. “You need more than that in the political arena. You can’t drain these issues of their lifeblood and turn them into numbers and realistic deadlines and expect people to get engaged about it.”

Zina Precht-Rodriguez, 23, an activist with the Sunrise Movement, a youth-led climate change group, traveled from Philadelphia to speak at the Des Moines rally last week. She said it’s important to have faith.

“It’s not necessarily proved that it’s impossible because it’s never been tried,” she said.

nyt
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 06:16 am
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
There will likely be a breaking point in the Chinese government's restraint. My emotions are with the protestors, I wish there was a different tactic available to them.
Yes. Any who side with the Chinese government here are almost certain to be some variant of sociopath. Like Trump with his natural affinity for murderous dictators. As to other potential tactics, that's the key dilemma. But we do have the prior examples of Gandhi, MLK and Mandela/Tutu to inform us.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 06:20 am
@hightor,
It's a damned good point. Because we are ideologically and morally opposed to the use of cannons in war, I and my men will ride forward with our swords.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 06:22 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
pssst.... it was a joke
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 07:12 am
Quote:
Biden says marijuana may be a ‘gateway drug.' Like most of his generation, he’s not ready to legalize it.
WP

Is it possible he and his team presume this to be a winning electoral strategy? Dumb, dumb, dumb.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  4  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 08:49 am
Trump promised China US silence on Hong Kong protests during trade talks

Quote:
Asked about the Hong Kong protests in August, Trump told reporters: “Somebody said that at some point they’re going to want to stop that. But that’s between Hong Kong and that’s between China, because Hong Kong is a part of China. They’ll have to deal with that themselves. They don’t need advice.”
revelette3
 
  3  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 10:01 am
@hightor,
Trying to your head around all the huge changes he wants to make in almost every sector is impossible. I mean, put it all together, Medicare for All, free universities (even for millionaires presumably) and now changing the whole energy industry in the country and I guess putting the companies under government control, add in something about public housing being mixed in with his Climate ambitions and his infrastructure projects, it is mind boggling of how he would be able to plan, execute his plans in a smooth efficient manner even if the plans made it out of the House and Senate.

It not as if most human beings would not want:

Quote:
I want every human being to have clean air, clean water, healthy food, safe shelter, comprehensive healthcare and childcare, gainful employment, thriving wages, secure retirement and accountable government.


However, speaking for myself, I would rather hear about plans we can work on doing now, hear about how it can actually feasibly work, and hear plans we can work towards for the future. I mean Rome wasn't built in a single day, and the government is not heaven.
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 10:13 am
@revelette3,
I mentioned earlier that it wouldn't take too much for me to be a pretty enthusiastic supporter of Sanders. He'd have to be younger (and I'm only half kidding), but more importantly, I'd like to see him distinguish between our dream of a democratic socialist future and the practical plans needed to address our problems right now given the makeup of our Congress and our courts. I like politicians who are realistic, not ones who promise to do the impossible because it makes us feel good — what makes some people feel good scares the crap out of others.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 11:54 am
@hightor,
I had not seen that. This gives a solid ground to Finn's suggestion that those of us libs writing on this site are deeply irresponsible and hypocritical in noting potential negatives for Hong Kong residents in how these protests are being waged.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  3  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 02:34 pm
@hightor,
I had not seen this before.

I find it very disturbing, but then I always knew he was an imperfect vessel.

The Chinese are very sensitive to public criticism (See NBA fiasco) so I suppose it's possible that he may be keeping a low profile on Hong Kong so as to not create an impediment to a desperately desired trade deal, but I have my doubts. Again...I don't like it; at all.

I'm quite sure I would not have given Barrack Obama as much latitude as I am prepared to give Donald Trump, but then I rarely supported the former on policy matters (foreign and domestic) and I often do so with the latter.

Trump is clearly not a Neo-Con which should please those who equated the ilk with demons from the 5th circle of Hell (All the while not having a clue as to what a Neo-Con is) and he's very committed to America First in a literal sense, and so if he is willing to put the American economy in a position above the freedom of the people of Hong Kong, it's neither surprising nor inconsistent.

He understands as too many Americans do not that China, not Russia, Iran or Turkey et al is America's most critical foe. I couldn't care less whether or not he talks about having a "beautiful relationship" with Ji or whatever other empty praise he heaps on dictators and despots and I find that those who insist that he is seriously obsequies with them are intellectually dishonest because they also insist that every other utterance from his lips is a lie.

China (as it is ruled today) will never be content with sharing the world with the US. It wants it all. I don't understand the thinking that drives power-mad despots like Ji, Sadam, Hitler, Stalin, Mao etc, but I don't doubt for a second that they exist and are enemies of humanity.

All the bullshit we have heard about Russia Russia Russia obfuscates the danger of China. Russia is a tick, China is a tiger.

We'll see what happens (with Trump) should the Chinese very violently crackdown on Hong Kong, but if he shrugs it off, I won't be voting for Warren.

0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 02:49 pm
@blatham,
Proof that we need a democratic president? Israel, palistianan war mongering. Giving Turkey permission to take Serbian land away from u s allies. Forgiving China for destroying Hong Kong freedom. Helping Putin and Russia gain in the middle east by doing anything Putin tells us to do. Using his casinos to launder Russian mafia money. All things our wonderful republican president has done to weaken the u s. And of course our so called democratic people spreading descension through the party in an attempt to get Trump reelected by claiming only Bernie or no one like they did in 2016 when they got Trump elected and enabled a republican supreme court.
coldjoint
 
  0  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 03:12 pm
@RABEL222,
Quote:
Forgiving China for destroying Hong Kong freedom

The British gave away Hong Kong and its freedom.
https://www.thoughtco.com/china-lease-hong-kong-to-britain-195153
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 03:16 pm
@RABEL222,
Quote:
Giving Turkey permission to take Serbian land away from u s allies.


WTF? Very Happy

Quote:
Forgiving China for destroying Hong Kong freedom.


When did that happen and when did you become an advocate for Hong Kong?
Quote:

Helping Putin and Russia gain in the middle east by doing anything Putin tells us to do.


Like:

PUTIN: "Don't give Ukraine lethal defensive weapons!"
PUTIN: "Don't impose any economic sanctions on us!"
PUTIN: "Don't strike Syria with cruise missiles after it gassed its people!"

I've given you just three. Give me one from your side.

When did you become this anti-Russian hero? It certainly wasn't during the Obama years.
Lash
 
  2  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 04:29 pm
@revelette3,
JFK was a proponent of universal healthcare in the 60s, Roosevelt was, Hillary Clinton was. JFK was irritated that we were so far behind Europe even then with providing decent healthcare to our citizens.

It’s been 60 years. It’s time.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 04:58 pm
@Lash,
Only 60 years. What about the increments? Got to have patience. Your great great granddaughter should be able to expect it for her great great granddaughter.
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Tue 19 Nov, 2019 05:45 am
@edgarblythe,
(Don't forget Truman.)

Quote:
What about the increments?

Increments are all we're going to get — if we're lucky — because there's no way a radical top-to-bottom reorganization of our health care and health insurance system is going to be put into place. Won't make it through Congress, won't make it past the courts. Notice that Trump has been able to crow about the campaign promises he's kept. That's because they were doable. Promised a tax cut — and we got a deficit-expanding, irresponsible tax cut for the wealthy. Promised he'd repeal regulations — and we're all breathing dirtier air. Promised to stick it to China — and he's messed up hundreds of US businesses and trade relationships by imposing tariffs on China. Promised to cut illegal immigration — hell, he's even cut legal immigration. Sure, he made a lot of other promises which he couldn't keep but he's a good enough showman to pander and bluster his way into the hearts of his adoring supporters by appealing to their basest instincts and prejudices. How long are you folks willing to give Sanders as he works to take on the largest capitalist economy in the world with the most conservative electorate and transform it into a democratic socialist state? That'd be quite an undertaking — assuming he could make it past the 2022 midterms. Hell, assuming he could even get elected in the first place.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  3  
Reply Tue 19 Nov, 2019 06:58 am
I have a concern that I raised a few pages back, that I don’t think was ever really addressed.
Warren has gotten a lot of criticism and derision from Bernie fans for being “Bernie-lite” - a clone candidate with a watered-down version of his policies.

Warren has, at the same time had to withstand widespread, sustained, intense scrutiny and questioning, demanding that she explain and release in writing her detailed plans for how her plans will be paid for.

As far as I can tell, Bernie has been allowed to skate by with weak, generalized statements that he “will make the rich pay their fair share”. According to him and his acolytes, he is the architect of the most radical, “revolutionary” plans for healthcare and financial reform. He wants - and his minions demand - to be credited for that.

Why then do we not see day after day of headlines about Bernie being pressed in interviews, or in town halls, or on the debate stage - to produce his well thought out detailed plans to produce his “revolution”?

Anyone?
Sturgis
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 Nov, 2019 03:01 pm
@snood,
The short, quick and easy to dismiss answer, is that the media shuns Sanders.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Nov, 2019 03:19 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
I misspelled Syrian. The rest of your post is your usual twisting of words to mean something completely different from what was posted. Just to make sure you understand what I am saying, lying through your ass.
0 Replies
 
 

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