Progressives (Liberals)

@Olivier5,

Interestingly, this question has not been answered:

Quote:

What would you want your candidate to promise to the voters, then, other than "I'm not Trump"?

Rev, Hightor, Rabel have all said or implied that Sanders and Warren may be promissing too much. That may well be true, yet you don't win elections by promising nothing... So what would be the kind of commitment from a dem candidate to voters that you would be comfortable with?

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Democratic-leaning voters tend to agree with Sanders' policies, a new poll found.

BERNIE SANDERS 'BEST' ON HEALTH CARE, THE ECONOMY, ENVIRONMENT AND IMMIGRATION IN NEW 2020 POLL

By Andrew Whalen On 11/05/19 at 5:18 PM EST

A new poll finds that, among 1,115 adult respondents living in the United States, 2020 Democratic candidate Bernie Sanders is "the best" on several particular issues, including healthcare, the environment, immigration, the economy and jobs.

Conducted by Ipsos on behalf of Reuters between November 1-4, the poll asked respondents to "select the candidate from the list below you think is best on that particular issue," with Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Pete Buttigieg, Beto O'Rourke and Cory Booker available as selections. Among independents and self-identified Democrats (these questions were not asked of Republican respondents), Bernie Sanders was the preferred candidate in every policy category, which included "immigration," "health care," "the environment" and "the economy and jobs."

Sixteen percent of respondents agreed Bernie Sanders was the "best on" immigration issues, followed by Joe Biden with 13 percent and Elizabeth Warren with 10 percent. The same ranking of the top three candidates was similar when it came to the economy and jobs, but wider divisions between candidate preference were evident in other policy areas.

Sanders was the clear preference when it came to health care, at 24 percent—a reflection of the central role a single-payer "Medicare for All" plan has played in his campaign—with Warren at 15 and Biden at 14. Sanders was also substantially ahead when it came to environmental issues, such as the New Green Deal, polling at 20 percentage points to Biden's 12 and Warren's 11.

The poll found similar plurality support for Sanders' policy positions when narrowed to only self-identified Democrats, with Sanders demonstrating a substantial lead in healthcare and the environment, but tied with Joe Biden for the top spot when it comes to the economy and immigration.

Although Sanders was a clear preference among possible Democratic primary voters on a number of policies, the democratic socialist candidate ranked second overall, with 15 percent saying they would vote for Sanders were the primary held today, compared to 22 percent for Biden and 11 percent for Warren.

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@Olivier5,

Quote:

What would you want your candidate to promise to the voters, then, other than "I'm not Trump"?

Olivier, I'm an eco-stalinist. Nobody running has articulated the sort of programs I'd want to see put into place over the next decade. But I'm also a realist, and I wouldn't expect a candidate promoting the actions which I think need to be done to get 5% support. So for me it's really important that at least we don't move backwards in our commitment to preserving what's left of the functioning bio-systems which support life on this planet. Obviously this means I don't want to see four more years of Trump. "I'm not Trump" isn't bad for starters.

I don't believe that the current enthusiasm for democratic socialism is as strong and as deep as would be necessary for a successful leftist candidate to implement the wholesale reforms being promised. When you dig into the numbers, jeezus christ, we're talking about trillions of dollars. Looking back at the implementation of the ACA, the horse-trading going on in full public view was an ugly spectacle and disgusted the voters. I can only imagine what trying to implement a fraction of Sanders's or Warren's programs would look like in a closely-divided congress with an administration elected by anything less than a resounding landslide. "Primaries left, general center" could cause many of the most committed progressives to bolt to a third party.

Quote:

So what would be the kind of commitment from a dem candidate to voters that you would be comfortable with?

Re-installing clean air and clean water regulations, re-entering the Paris Accords, providing a public option for government-based health insurance,
repairing relations with allies, reforming the electoral process, getting rid of dark money contributions, overturning Citizens United, rebuilding the wall between church and state, making commitments to public education from K to 12 and beyond, repealing Taft-Hartley, breaking up the tech giants, moving toward global free trade, restoring full funding for family planning and reproductive rights, helping cities and states repair and improve infrastructure imperiled by climate change, public works programs for the unemployed — I'd be comfortable with those kinds of commitments, even though they don't reach nearly as far as I'd actually like.

1 Reply

@hightor,

Thanks for answering. I don't see much difference between what you propose as realistic commitments and what Sanders and Warren are offering. It looks only just slightly less ambitious to me.

I agree that the public option (ie Medicare for all who want it) is preferrable to M4A. It's also easier to do, and defend, so I agree that Warren and Sanders ought to consider it as a possibility.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

I don't think my suggestions or the proposals of the other candidates are that different from those proposed by Sander and Warren either. Just less ambitious — and more likely to gain the support of independents. Primaries are set up to cull the field, to see which candidates appeal to the most voters. Once one candidate emerges victorious, the party is supposed to coalesce around the winner. This year we see voters who have come right and said they will bolt if their candidate fails to win — due, no doubt to "cheating". The Democratic Party's image has been sullied to the point where party unity is no longer a given. Sanders wasn't even a registered Democrat until this election cycle. In fact, some activists are using the primaries as a way to attack the party and gleefully anticipate its demise. Keeping everyone inside the big tent is a very tenuous balancing act.

1 Reply

@hightor,

Quote:

Primaries are set up to cull the field, to see which candidates appeal to the most voters.

Exactly, and from that perspective it's just too early to ask the candidates to scale-down their proposals. Let's first see how the proposals resonate with the electorate. Nobody knows yet how much appetite there is for radical reform. Let's not preclude this discussion.

Edit:

Quote:

The Democratic Party's image has been sullied to the point where party unity is no longer a given.

Politics are dirty by nature; there is such thing a "clean politics". Nobody in his right mind would expect politicians to be perfect people. The issue is more about trust in the primary process, I think.

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After portraying his reelection campaign as an explicit crusade against Bernie and the working-class agenda fueling Bernie’s campaign, GOP Gov. Matt Bevin said he felt “confident” he’d win by 6 to 10 points in the Republican-leaning state of Kentucky.

Instead, by the end of election night, Bevin was down, and both Kentucky’s Secretary of State and NBC News declared that Bevin lost the race.

Whatever happens with the final results (Bevin has not conceded), the fact that Kentucky’s election was even close is a fantastic sign for the 2020 election and Bernie’s campaign. It shows that GOP attacks on Bernie and his agenda are likely to backfire — even in traditionally Republican states.

Remember: Bernie visited Kentucky in August to rally pressure against Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell, and to express support for teachers who staged huge protests against Bevin.

In response, Bevin used the Bernie event to record a video casting his reelection campaign as a crusade against Bernie and “his hateful class warfare.” Bevin asked Kentucky voters: “Which side are you on?”

They responded on Tuesday — with a very encouraging sign for the Bernie campaign and the working-class movement that will defeat Trump in 2020.

Bern after reading,

Sirota

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@edgarblythe,

That's a story Sirota would like you to believe.

Quote:

Their Republican opponents are in lock step with the president. Mr. Bevin’s most aired ad of his campaign, according to the firm, is ripped from the Trump playbook: It shows images of tattooed gang members, hoping to sow fears of illegal immigration, and says Mr. Bevin is “pro-Trump” even before it says he’s “pro-Kentucky.” Mr. Bevin spent about $4 million on advertising.

NYT

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The unpopular incumbent’s harsh attacks on Democratic challenger Attorney General Andy Beshear’s backing of abortion rights, rare for a Southern gubernatorial candidate, has Democrats worried about their chances slipping away in a race that has grown unexpectedly close.

Politico

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How One Simple Ad About Transgender Athletes Could Win Matt Bevin His Election

Federalist

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A campaign ad for Kentucky Gov. Matt Bevin, a Republican up for re-election on Tuesday, also cites impeachment, portraying Bevin's opponent, Democrat Andy Beshear, as a backward liberal whose “top supporters want to impeach our president.”

USAToday

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Exclusive – Poll: ‘Transgender’ Men Ads Lead to 8-Point Voter Swing to Republican Matt Bevin from Democrat Andy Beshear

Breitbart

It is Sirota's job to pump up the candidate he's working for. That's fine. But the claim he is making is, at the least, stretching things. I did a google search on "Bevin campaign ads" and all of those examples came up before any mention of Sanders at all. I'm sure Bevin's team went that way though unlikely they'd mention Sanders and not Warren, particularly, or Biden.

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Another point on the Kentucky governor's race. Bevin was a unique figure in contemporary KY politics. He was broadly despised even by most Republicans.
Adam Raymond at NYMag explains the broader picture. Note the final graph - Republicans won everything else last night.

Quote:

...For those watching from afar, it may seem like a shocking result. Kentucky, a deep-red state where Donald Trump won by nearly 30 points in 2016, had just rejected a Republican governor and Trump sycophant, even after the president made an election eve flyby to push Bevin over the finish line. Surely this means Trump and Senator Mitch McConnell, who’s also up for reelection next year, are in trouble in 2020, right?

Don’t get too excited. More than anything else, Matt Bevin’s loss was about Matt Bevin. For four years, the New Hampshire–raised millionaire has made enemies across the state of Kentucky. Most notably, he’s repeatedly tangled with educators by threatening their pensions, cutting education funding, and lobbing callous insults about their commitment and priorities. With Bevin in office, educators organized under the banner of Kentucky 120 United, a grassroots advocacy group that called for sick-outs and staged massive protests in Frankfort over the past two years. It seems they lived up to their rally cry: “Remember in November.”

Bevin also had a less vocal but potentially more fatal enemy: the members of his own party who came out against him. He feuded with his lieutenant governor, who was replaced on the ticket this year, and saw several state Republicans endorse Beshear over him. Despite his desperate attempts to tie himself to Trump, Bevin’s approval rating has lagged far behind the president’s in Kentucky. At last check, Morning Consult found 34 percent approval for Bevin and 56 percent for Trump. Clearly, many Republicans just don’t like the guy.

That was made abundantly clear Tuesday night as the results for down-ballot races came in with a Republican winning every single one. Kentucky voters reelected incumbent Republicans as auditor, treasurer, and agriculture commissioner. They also chose Republicans for attorney general and secretary of State, two posts currently held by departing Democrats...

So, in this state at least, we can't presume some comfortable story that last night a surging progressive movement bore fruit. Whether or not we can conclude that Bevin's close attachment to Trumpism was consequential is not clear.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

1. It was definitely a good night for the Democratic party in Virginia and in Kentucky.

2. I am so happy with those Democratic victories.

3. The reports I am hearing says the democrats continue to do better and better with voters in the suburbs.

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Not a big thing, but let's note it

Quote:

Pressley breaks with the 'squad' and endorses Warren for president

Politico

1 Reply

@blatham,

Quote:

Another point on the Kentucky governor's race. Bevin was a unique figure in contemporary KY politics. He was broadly despised even by most Republicans.

I would like to add to that "Beshear" is a beloved name in Kentucky politics in that he father was a popular 2 term governor of Kentucky. Name recognition certainly helps.

1 Reply

@blatham,

She was in the tank for Hillary—I have a vague memory of her saying something I thought was gross, but can’t remember.

I don’t think any progressives who knew her history expected anything else.

1 Reply

@Lash,

Lash wrote:

She was in the tank for Hillary—I have a vague memory of her saying something I thought was gross, but can’t remember.

I don’t think any progressives who knew her history expected anything else.

Ah, yes. I know I’d find it.

She accused Bernie of ‘mansplaining’ progressivism to Hillary and he couldn’t do “in three days or thirty days’ what she’d been doing some longer time as a progressive... Even a psychotic liar would admit that was fifty kindsa stupid. Somebody found the video on Twitter.

I saw it a few months ago, but no reason to mention it. Til now.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

The promise to reverse most of trumps royal proclamations. And to work as hard to elect enough senators to enable a democratic president to get some repairs to our national and international reputation. And I don't think Bernie is the guy to do this because of his preoccupation with giving stuff away.

1 Reply

Somebody needs to explain progressivism to Hillary daily until she finally figures out what it is. Call it mansplaining or trying to teach the hardheaded, as you like.

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@RABEL222,

"Undo Trump", huh?

That's a loser's platform because it defines your candidate by reference to Trump. It's another advertisement for the Donald.

Nobody's going to vote enthusiastically for something that meaningless. Try again.

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@BillW,

Good point.

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@Lash,

Quote:

She was in the tank for Hillary

Apparently a supporter. I found a quote from the last cycle that sort of verifies your point.

Quote:

"She must become our next president. There is no doubt in my mind that, as we head towards November, Hillary is far and away the best candidate to do that".

So, as you understand the term, I guess she wouldn't be seen as a progressive.

1 Reply

@blatham,

I was much more irritated that she said Bernie had been a newcomer to progressivism compared to Hillary, but at the end of the day, she can endorse whom she pleases.

1 Reply

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