edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Oct, 2019 08:06 am
@hightor,
There is a progressive in the race.
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Oct, 2019 08:10 am
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
There is a progressive in the race.


But there wasn't one in the 2018 election for Senator of West Virginia.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Oct, 2019 08:12 am
@hightor,
But he was already a Republican asset.
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Oct, 2019 08:36 am
@edgarblythe,
You're probably familiar with the situation in West Virginia, but I thought this column (while ultimately wrong) provides some insight into voting patterns in the "Mountain State":

5 Reasons Why Joe Manchin Will Not Be Re-Elected

West Virginians aren't going to vote for a liberal. But simply ceding the state to one party would be a mistake so DNC support for Manchin makes sense in that context.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Oct, 2019 10:13 am
Defending right wing politicians is one reason Democrats are failing and people are becoming independents. You rarely see Republicans electing "liberals." There's a solid reason for that.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Oct, 2019 10:40 am
Why would you trust Warren on campaign finance, M4A or Manchin if the changes only happened during this campaign? Btw,her spirited defense of Manchin was 3 yrs ago, but she endorsed him over
@paulajean2020
in 2018!!!!!!!

0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Thu 31 Oct, 2019 10:58 am
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
Defending right wing politicians is one reason Democrats are failing and people are becoming independents.

Along with being seen as promoting various "nanny-state" proposals, welcoming illegal migrants, and itching to levy new taxes.
Quote:
You rarely see Republicans electing "liberals." There's a solid reason for that.

Yeah, and you don't see West Virginians electing liberals either. The reason for that is that significant numbers of people in W. Va. are conservative. So if a Democrat is elected there, it will be a conservative Democrat. Manchin supported the striking teachers and
Quote:
[he] has repeatedly voted against attempts to repeal the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (also known as Obamacare), voted to preserve funding for Planned Parenthood in 2017, and voted against the 2017 Republican tax plan. He has complained about the "toxic" lack of bipartisanship in Congress on almost every issue; "liberal activists argue he is too conservative for the Democratic Party, while Republicans argue he is too liberal for West Virginia."

wikipedia



hightor
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Oct, 2019 11:34 am
I didn't think my previous post was particularly controversial. Does anyone feel that West Virginia is actually a bastion of liberalism? Does anyone think that Democrats are being unfairly accused of supporting "big government"?
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Oct, 2019 12:37 pm
I've said all I have to say about it for now, other than to mention that voter unhappiness with the system and the politicians is a primary force in elections these days.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Oct, 2019 01:15 pm
I stay upset with both parties because once Roosevelt died most of his work was incrementally undone and still is raveling. He was not finished at the time of his death.
https://scontent.fhou1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/74703524_10158341354902908_5748769229834813440_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQlWCz6ef915IrFx3KIJNMDWp9fukT6J5O-47TKPMge35eoWt6dKPiLXpffr7ujhl7i2wsfx9tEFGAd1dhdDyGn0&_nc_ht=scontent.fhou1-2.fna&oh=b066825467edb97c2edee1c0ab9e9b6e&oe=5E4AC274
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Oct, 2019 01:17 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
voter unhappiness with the system and the politicians is a primary force in elections these days.
Nothing wrong with that sentence except for the last two words.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Oct, 2019 01:24 pm
@edgarblythe,
I think, edgar, that you mistakenly assume that the population of America (or Canada or Britain or...) hold the same views and values regarding political arrangements that you and I hold. Anywhere you look, elections over time demonstrate a seesaw between us and the other guys. Sure, we have a set of preferences and moral ideas that we believe will better serve the majority but we don't run the show. Democracy means that sometimes the bad guys win.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Oct, 2019 01:34 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:
Democracy means that sometimes the bad guys win.
I have experienced this in all severity during my childhood: the majority of two (parents) versus single poor Walter with the better set of preferences and superior ideas ...
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Oct, 2019 01:39 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I'm so sorry, walter. I had intuited that something had gone very, very wrong at some point in your past. Thanks for sharing.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Oct, 2019 01:41 pm
@edgar
Here's a large part of what you and I and Walter (though not his parents) are up against. This is a modern version of the problem.
Quote:
PACE, FLORIDA — Chris wanted to make it clear: He didn’t mean to compare Donald Trump to Jesus. But he did, twice.

Democrats have gone after Trump over and over again because they’re threatened by his power, Chris said — just like the Romans did with Christ. And later, when they couldn't find real reasons to persecute him, well: “They just bear false witness.”

“It’s a Peter and the Wolf thing,” said Chris, a resident of tiny Baker, Florida, who is struggling to find work because of a physical disability. First accusations of racism, then sexual harassment, then homophobia, then more racism, then Russian collusion. Now, Ukraine.

“You cry long enough and loud enough, and at first people are like, ‘Oh no, the wolf is here, the wolf is here,’ but after a while, you realize, it’s a joke. And so now, I don’t even care anymore.”

With the impeachment inquiry into Trump raging on in Washington, I went looking for the place in America that was deepest inside the Fox News bubble. There’s no data about where, exactly, people watch the most Fox News. But data from PRRI, the Public Religion Research Institute, suggests that the average Republican who watches Fox is white, Southern, and over the age of 30.

I ended up here, in a sun-baked Walmart parking lot in Florida’s first congressional district — a stretch of sparkling beaches and dense pine forests along the far tip of the state’s panhandle. The district is the most conservative in Florida, mostly white and disproportionately older, and most importantly, its representative is Matt Gaetz, who has vaulted his national profile with appearance after appearance on the cable news channel.

The impeachment inquiry has been especially kind to Gaetz’s Fox profile. His latest line: “Trump is innocent and the deep state is guilty.”

In Gaetz’s district, almost no one is worried about what Trump said to the president of Ukraine. Instead, the overwhelming feeling here is that, even in the midst of a historic impeachment inquiry, there is nothing new or different happening in Washington.

I spoke to nearly two dozen voters outside Walmarts scattered across Gaetz’s district. The phrase “quid pro quo” might be new, but the way voters here defend Trump is virtually unchanged from the earliest days of his presidential run, often word-for-word what I have heard at Trump rallies since 2015.

Impeachment is just another scandal stirred up by Democrats — bringing with it exactly the same chance that people here will change their mind about Trump.

Removing Trump from office would almost certainly require a dramatic shift in public opinion to give a mass of Republican senators political cover — a swing not just from independent voters but a large chunk of Republicans, too, who would have to turn against a president to whom they have remained steadily loyal for years.

One clear impediment to that kind of shift: Fox, the outlet that polls show most Republicans trust overwhelmingly over any other news source. Swaying Republicans towards impeachment means swaying people who have mostly watched the inquiry play out on Fox — which has attacked it relentlessly from every angle.

Fox News viewers are remarkably, and unrelentingly, loyal to Trump. Fifty-five percent of Republicans who get their news from Fox said there was nothing Trump could do to lose their approval, a recent study found, compared with just 30% of Republicans who don’t. In a new Suffolk poll, only 9% of people who trust Fox News most said they believed Trump’s call with Ukraine’s president is an impeachable offense, compared to 72% of people who most trust CNN — and 78% of Fox watchers said they agreed with Trump’s assessment that the impeachment proceedings constitute a “political lynching.”...
BuzzFeed - more here
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Oct, 2019 02:03 pm
@blatham,
The seesaw is a result of manipulation by the powers who can propagandize and financially browbeat and bribe, endlessly. The politicians have access to such information, but caved anyway, all the way the point today where most are so rotten they stink. When a Martin Luther King or a Robert Kennedy stands to make a difference they are assassinated or otherwise disposed of. The average citizen would not fall for this **** so readily if those they hear would tell the truth for once. Instead, they lose faith because both parties promise stuff they have no intention to deliver on and there is no place to turn. Anybody who thinks Obama or the Clintons have any good answers are as manipulated as Trump's stooges.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Oct, 2019 02:39 pm
Michael Moore
1 hr ·
‪Dear Speaker Pelosi: Please do not accept the resignation from Rep. Katie Hill.

Dear Representative Hill: Please don’t resign. We will stand with you with whatever you decide to do, but you are a victim of a crime. You have been viciously abused by your ‪soon-to-be ex-husband. Millions of us are on your side.

Members of Congress: If you allow a man who uses revenge porn to succeed here, you are all his collaborators. Your business is not to punish and shame a woman who had consensual sex with a campaign co-worker (which does not violate the rules of the House). This is 2019.‬

Men: Some day in the hopefully not-too-distant future, the majority gender will hold the majority of seats in our Congress. Best to wise up now and get on the right side of history.
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Oct, 2019 03:01 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
The seesaw is a result of manipulation by the powers who can propagandize and financially browbeat and bribe, endlessly.
I trust you aren't suggesting I'm unaware of or insufficiently educated as to the role that money and business plays in politics or that I'm untutored in the devices of propagandists. Unfortunately, we can't disappear this stuff without becoming totalitarians ourselves. Bernie is not going to be able to erase the power and influence of the oil and gas industries. He won't be able to come anywhere close to such a thing. No one could do that. What's he or any one going to do about Fox? What's he or anyone going to do about the people in that piece most of whom will surely go to their graves believing as they do?

Quote:
Anybody who thinks Obama or the Clintons have any good answers are as manipulated as Trump's stooges.
Here's where you sound very much like those people quoted in the article. Seriously. What are the chances that Sanders stands so uniquely among democrats that he is more akin to a Savior than a mortal man? That only he has the Answers?
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Oct, 2019 03:09 pm
@blatham,
we could nationalize oil and gas under emergency procedures. Atd be a real cluster ****, having worked in such countries
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Oct, 2019 03:23 pm
@farmerman,
I can't speak to such prior examples of the attempt as my knowledge base is far too shallow. But it is not at all difficult to imagine what would happen, at least presently, if the attempt were to be made. I've read some stuff from Jeffrey Sachs but such subjects I'm going to leave to others.
0 Replies
 
 

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