Progressives (Liberals)

@blatham,

Quote:

You've kind of stunned me with that, george.

Me too. He seems to have bought the line that anything which has ever surfaced which shows Trump in a negative light is the product of a wide-ranging plot to overturn the results of the '16 election. Like the other rightists on this board, he's apparently had a deep drink of Rush's Kool-Aid:

Limbaugh wrote:

You’re going to know everything you need to know about this latest faux scandal. Everything you’re seeing is deception.

source

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@hightor,

This is no small problem. To have so many people who have allowed themselves to be isolated in such a severely closed off information system frightens the hell out of me.

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Quote:

“There has been no President in the history of our Country who has been treated so badly as I have,” Trump tweeted Wednesday, some 13 hours after Pelosi’s announcement.

WP

I think that for many Americans, it is impossible to imagine the possibility that a sociopath might climb his/her way to the presidency. America's traditions, its national character and its constitution would cumulatively work to stop such an event long before it might come to pass seems to be the assumption. I was just down in Portland and stopped by Powell's Books to get a copy of Hannah Arent's The Origins of Totalitarianism. To my delight, a note attached to the space which held the copies noted that this old book has again become a best seller. However, I'm actually a bit frightened to read it.

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I had been aghast when GW Bush ran for governor of Texas. When he became president, I thought, "It's now possible for the lowest form of cretin to get elected." Turned out I was right.

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@edgarblythe,

We could make a substantial list of things W did wrong but in my view it was people around him who created the real disasters, particularly Rove and Cheney's crowd. In light of the present situation, Bush looks almost angelic.

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@blatham,

He gets no makeover from me.

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I think someone would have to be very unthinking and/or unfeeling not to be at least a little scared regarding the state of our nation today. For me, perhaps the scariest thing is the way that the weaknesses of institutions I supposed were in place to enforce the operation of effective government have been exposed.
Not only that, but I think I’d also taken for granted that the basic levels of decency and judgment of people I know (and people in general) would not allow them to so meekly acquiesce to the horrible norms that have been imposed.

I’m pretty sure this might paint me as somewhat naive. I mean, I’ve done more than my share of complaining about the inadequacies and injustices of government, so to be chagrined at that inadequacy now might seem odd. I’ll just say that the last three years have been challenging to wrap my head around.

Contrary to those who see 45 as a mere symptom of a more comprehensive rot, I see him as a uniquely rotten thing, and I believe November 8 2016 began a unique mass lowering of what Americans deem morally acceptable.
I’m trying to keep hope alive that can be raised.

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@edgarblythe,

Oh lighten up you old fogey. It's not a makeover, it's a contrast.

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@snood,

That's very well voiced, snood.

Quote:

I’m pretty sure this might paint me as somewhat naive.

We've all been naive. On the other hand, I'm thankful that at 16 or 20 my grasp of human behavior was marked by innocence and naivete. Without some optimism, we're fucked. So I'll cling to it so much as I can just as you do.

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Quote:

Contrary to those who see 45 as a mere symptom of a more comprehensive rot, I see him as a uniquely rotten thing, and I believe November 8 2016 began a unique mass lowering of what Americans deem morally acceptable.

He can, at once, be a ‘uniquely rotten’ man whose ascension to the highest office in the world is a shattering symptom of our corrupt duopoly.

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@blatham,

blatham wrote:

I was just down in Portland and stopped by Powell's Books to get a copy of Hannah Arent's The Origins of Totalitarianism.

That reminded me of an rather unpleasant period during exams at school. (I had only scanned through it but was asked detailed questions.)
I remember, however, better times at university, when I wrote a paper in 'public administration sciences' with quotes from a book by Joseph von Sonnenfels about "the diligence to keep the private forces in a subordinate level against the forces of the state"
That book was written between 1769 and 1776, but if you read one or the other chapter today, you may think it could be the current program of ... some government(s).

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@snood,

Wish I could give a star, you summed up very well exactly how I feel as well. Much better than me, I tend to run on a bit. To my mind the last three years have been since the US saw fit to elect the guy and we have seen him and his defenders and enablerse in action, in a word, demoralizing.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Organizing millions of humans in some non-totalitarian manner appears to be a difficult task.

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@revelette1,

Yes. It is demoralizing. Thank god most of us are good of heart. Me particularly.

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On another note, Warren seems to have benefited from last weekend before the scandal to this weekend after everything has come down. I guess, Biden is getting smeared along with Trump.

Quote:

Warren overtook Biden in several polls
Four debate-qualifying polls have been released since last weekend, and three of them show Ms. Warren ahead, either nationally or in early-voting states. Her leads are narrow — well within the margin of error — but is still noteworthy given that, of the more than 50 qualifying polls released between February and last weekend, Mr. Biden had led in all but three.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/28/us/politics/2020-democrats-trump-impeachment.html

If I had to guess, if the Trump re-election was smart, when they plotting the Biden angle by breaking the law, they would have waited to use it until after the democrat primary. As it is, it helps Warren whom they stupidly dismiss like a lot of men. But I think she has got it in her to win, she is likeable and she don't have the baggage, right or wrong, that Hillary did.

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@blatham,

You have such a sly wit. I was trying to say, like Snood was talking about, most of us Americans had faith in the overall US to withstand such a thing as Trump and we have had our faith in the certainty shaken; hence demoralizing.

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@blatham,

The Austrian kind of Enlightenment such as published by von Sonnenfels was not at all libertarian, but driven by a thoroughly organised police apparatus.

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@revelette1,

revelette1 wrote:

You have such a sly wit. I was trying to say, like Snood was talking about, most of us Americans had faith in the overall US to withstand such a thing as Trump and we have had our faith in the certainty shaken; hence demoralizing.

😊
I’m pretty sure he understands what you were getting at Rev. He just had to throw in that his is a particularly pure heart and sweet spirit.😩🤣

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Warren looks ok to me but I think electing a congress that will begin to reign in the power of the president and the supreme court is paramount. Declaring business a person with the right to vote with money is the thing that screwed all of us. The supreme court has become as politicized as any branch of government and is responsible for many of Trumps illegalities.

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@revelette1,

smooch

1 Reply

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