Progressives (Liberals)

It's not very different from European democratic socialism. It's basically the middle ground between unfettered capitalism and communism. It says: instead of doing a communist or fascist revolution, let's be reasonnable people and agree how to share the wealth in a bit of a fairer manner, without going to the extreme of a state run economy.

And it's known in the USA nearly as long as in Europe: in the early 1900s, Socialists led the movements for women's suffrage, child labour laws, consumer protection laws and the progressive income tax; in 1916, Victor Berger, a socialist congressman from Milwaukee, sponsored the first bill to create "old age pensions" ... ...

However, during the Cold War, many US-Americans confused democratic socialism with communism, what has been said here a couple of times by various posters.

I just wanted it clear it's far from the communism some would equate with it. None of us that I could name wants what they have done in Russia or China. And then bringing in Pol Pot is going really low. Going on about it page after page is just a smokescreen to divert the topic from American progressive issues.

There are some who are that dumb. There are a lot of diverse people in both camps. But the progressives who want a man like Bernie Sanders are not seeking communist goals.

You're right that what American socialists are proposing is not as bad as what the Soviet and Chinese communists imposed.

Alluding to Pol Pot is a gross exaggeration, but that is what happens in political campaigns. Neither party is free of guilt on this score. Remember LBJ's playground mushroom cloud ad? My argument with hightor about the ad is not that it is accurate but that it is typical and anyone who is angered or disgusted by it should have reacted the same to similar Democrat ads.

I wish you would understand and accept that people are free to engage in exchanges on any topic that is raised in a thread. You shouldn't, but blame hightor for bringing the ad up. This truly has nothing to do with your obsessively paranoid notion that people want to shut down any thread because they are afraid of it. Nothing could be further from the truth.

You get to post whatever comments or links you like. If people don't want to engage in them that's your fault, not theirs.

I posted this in a couple places so I can get your responses.

Joe Biden just effectively wrote his resignation letter to me in his quest for the nomination.

I believe we need someone who can be blatantly anti-racist to stand against the white nationalist dupe in the White House.

He was asked how, at the 400-year anniversary of the chattel slavery of black people in this country, our country can best address the legacy of slavery. Joe Biden answered to the effect that black parenting needs to improve, and that
black children need to have more books read to them and more music played to them ( on “record-players”, no less).

His answer showed me clearly something that I’ve suspected all along about Joe, but sort of ignored because I want to beat Trump so badly and was buying into electability arguments. Joe is NOT a racist in the insidious and evil sense, but he is just not equipped to grapple openly with the structural, institutional racism that continuously corrodes our society.

Forty years ago, when he was asked about the legacy of slavery, he basically answered that he wasn’t responsible for that. And 40 years later when asked how to address the legacy of slavery, he says black people need help parenting. That is not anti-racist. That is the benign sort of go-along-to-get-along folksy stuff that would leave Donald Trump’s coddling of white supremacy and white nationalism unaddressed.

Trump’s racism is too central to what the fight is about to leave it effectively unaddressed.

My list right now is basically Warren, Harris, Bernie (and less so, Pete and Beto).

I couldn’t believe that anti-‘socialism’ ad, burning a pic of AOC. I can’t believe ABC ran it. It is clear incitement to violence against AOC. Charges should be pursued.

I don't watch television anymore so I miss a lot of the political ads, usually learning about them after the fact. So the reason you don't hear me criticize Democratic-sponsored ads is that I probably haven't seen them. I only found out about the Pol Pot/AOC ad by reading about it in the NYT.

I do, however, remember the mushroom cloud ad — I was a kid and saw it when it was aired for the first time. It was scary. And, no pun intended, it was overkill. I was too young to be angered about it at the time but I do remember people saying it had crossed the line.

If you alert me to a particular Democratic ad which you find as stupid as the Pol Pot/AOC one it's possible I might agree with you. I have no trouble criticizing stupid political advertisements even if I might support the side running the ad.

The mushroom cloud ad didn’t target a candidate for retribution.

I think you are essentially right about Biden. He is not, by any means, a malignant racist, but he is the perfect example of Democratic racist paternalism.

He feels sorry for your community and wants to be your Uncle Joe who will help you rise above your shortcomings.

I think there was plenty of evidence to support your opinion before this latest comment (not a gaffe by the way unless expressing your true feelings is a gaffe) , his describing Obama as articulate and clean is a perfect example.

He is, I think, a fairly decent man as far as DC politicians go and I think he would govern more centrist than his campaign rhetoric suggests. Under normal circumstances, I might be OK with him beating Trump (I won't vote for him though) but Joe has never been the brightest bulb in the pack and his age is showing...badly.

If he wins the nomination, our enemies, who can, will be working to help elect him. Not because he's anything like them, but because they will perceive him as far weaker than Trump...and he will be.

Good point.

It's very unlikely that you will read about similar Democratic ads in the NY Times.

Just to name two off the top of my head are the ones wherein it was insinuated that Romney was personally responsible for the unfortunate death from cancer of the wife of an employee of a company that his investment group purchased, and one where the visual was someone looking very much like Speaker Ryan pushing an elderly woman in a wheelchair over a cliff.

They are all par for the course and while I don't like them I accept them as reality and so I am not going to point any others out to you. If you want to believe one party is superior to the other in this regard, I doubt I can convince you otherwise.

Oh, stop it.

One of my students asked me if I was a racist and I said, “I try not to be.”

He asked me what that meant.

I said that there are two kinds of racists: those who know they are—they intentionally put down people because of their race, they’ll admit they feel superior to others based on their racial background, and then, there are people who don’t know they’re racist. They have beliefs about people based on what they look like and that thinking leads to how you treat someone and what you say about them.

(I didn’t say this)Paternalism is a well-meaning, but faulted form of racism, based on feelings of superiority.

I think if we’re not trying to check ourselves pretty regularly, we can fall into the wrong path pretty quickly and not realize it.

Anyway, that kicked off a pretty rich classroom conversation.

I think Joe is disgusting with his racism and the DNC was trying to get black votes via association with Obama, which is so nuts.

I don't trust Biden to maintain his composure. I could see him challenging Trump to trade punches in the green room after the debate.

I don't know how old your pupils are and what they already know in biology.

You could, perhaps, have added that biological races do not exist among humans.
So talking about "human races" could already considered to be racist.

I don't want to believe that nor do I believe that. Madison Avenue is more at fault than the political parties. You'd hope there'd be people on the campaign committees who could point out the problems with ads before they're run but I think the parties are easily bamboozled by media "specialists".

Indeed.

I would be displaying the paternalistic racism if I excused African Americans for allowing themselves to be duped by the Bidens of the Democrat party.

It's nice to see more and more of them questioning just what they have gotten from their blind loyalty.

I would like to see them vote Republican, but that's not what is important. What is important is that they break away from cultural chains and vote based on true self-interest. Maybe the Dems will offer a candidate that doesn't try to pander to them with incredibly ridiculous and insulting crap like "The one thing I keep in my purse is hot sauce"

Pardon me if this is a repeat, but there is a book precisely relevant to your sentence and which is highly explanatory. And it's a very good read to boot. The Father of Spin: Edward Bernays and the Birth of Public Relations

I haven't seen the ads in question.