blatham
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 Aug, 2019 05:36 pm
NYMag staff discussion
Quote:
Are the Electability Fears About Elizabeth Warren Overblown?

Ben: Elizabeth Warren is not only creeping up in the polls — she’s drawing
record crowds (15,000 people the other day in Seattle), more endorsements, and after two solid debates, is viewed the most favorably of the primary candidates among Democratic voters, according to an aggregate of August polls.

Yet the questions about her electability — which is a dirty word to some – persist, as a recent New York Times story detailed. Those concerns include Warren’s gender, her Native-American heritage issues, her not-that-impressive 2018 reelection victory to being a deeply liberal Harvard professor from Massachusetts. (I admit that I myself have voiced some of these concerns — in a chat from April, before her candidacy exploded, I worried that she could not beat Trump.) To what extent should Warren’s impressive performance this summer quell the doubts many had/have about her fitness as a general-election candidate?

Ed: I don’t think some of those who “doubt” Warren’s electability will ever be convinced — particularly those who don’t believe a woman can be elected until 2048 or something. But yeah, she is demonstrating that perceptions of candidates can and do change.

Sarah: With the caveat that it’s still kind of early: I think her recent performance really should quell most if not all of the concerns people previously raised about her candidacy. Trump is going to keep calling her Pocahontas, but it doesn’t seem to land anymore if it ever did in the first place. She’s shown that she can be personable and engaging in ways that Hillary Clinton never mastered, and while it may be true that the primary won’t turn on policy, I think it’s fair to say that people are attracted to the ideas that she’s putting out there. Certainly if we compare her to Joe Biden, she looks like a much more reliable bet for the party.

Ed: She’s also a more plausible unity figure than either Biden or Bernie Sanders...
Continue reading here
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 27 Aug, 2019 05:48 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
But Jesus Christ. Did you vote for Hillary?

I considered it. I was torn between the two.

I liked Hillary on foreign policy, but I wanted Trump to protect the Second Amendment.

When I mentioned my dilemma to a leftist friend of mine, they sneered and told me that the Democrats were only going to ban assault weapons.

I am sure that they were trying to convince me to vote for Hillary. But they made it clear to me that I needed to vote for Trump.

I made the right call. We need Mr. Trump to keep protecting the Second Amendment. Also, I don't want to vote for Democrats so long as they keep cheating in primaries.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Aug, 2019 05:51 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
Dissent Is Being Criminalized Right Under Our Noses
Indeed it is. After 9/11 when the intel services were being reorganized, one of the first moves they made was to criminalize those taking photographs inside of factory farming operations. At least that was the plan then. I can't say for sure this was implemented but I'd be comfortable with a wager on it.

PS, as in your example, one party is pushing this. Hint: not Dems.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Aug, 2019 05:57 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
to show party officials she is aligned with them.


Quote:
Her point was easy to grasp: While her liberal agenda may be further left than some in the Democratic establishment would prefer, she is a team player who is seeking to lead the party — not stage a hostile takeover of it.
Given that any real progress towards progressive legislation can only come via broad Dem (and independent) voter support support and via aligned Dems in Congress, this is an intelligent strategy.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 Aug, 2019 06:08 pm
@Lash,
Re Walsh, anything is better than nothing, sure. I'm pleased he's opening his yap in this way but I think the effects will be negligible. I could be wrong.
Quote:
I don’t even know the Walsh guy at all
He's a Grade A asshole in every way (Tea Party idiot, climate warming denier, anti-tax, etc)
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Aug, 2019 10:04 pm
In a new campaign ad, former vice president Joe Biden suggests that for all Americans to have healthcare would be an insult to his son, Beau Biden, who died of brain cancer in 2015. Watch for yourself:
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/vb5d7y/joe-biden-medicare-for-all-would-be-an-insult-to-my-dead-son?utm_campaign=sharebutton&fbclid=IwAR0_1ig3x21A1v1WXy6MYxkQhGYsHBVRfEep6HIjye7DX9u4Gkf_6b5hA8E
snood
 
  8  
Reply Tue 27 Aug, 2019 11:02 pm
@edgarblythe,
Goddam that’s disingenuous, Edgar. Just tell the truth and stop twisting things to make Bernie perfect and everything else corrupt.

Biden did NOT say that “everyone getting healthcare would be an insult” to Beau. Framing it like that is dirty and small minded. He is saying to trash Obamacare and start from scratch after all the blood sweat and tears it took to get it passed would be dishonoring all the 40 million people- including the Bidens- for whom Obamacare was a godsend.

Whether you like it or not, everyone with an educated opinion DOES NOT agree that it is clearly the best way to go - to end Obamacare and then draft and try to implement Universal Healthcare. Whether you accept it or not, there is a debate that is far from settled over whether it would be a better idea for the most people to try to build on and improve Obamacare.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Tue 27 Aug, 2019 11:32 pm
@edgarblythe,
This is one of the worst things Biden does. I’ve heard him frame it this way a few times on the trail—that Medicare for All would be a moral sin because of the work unions did, because of the work he did... I’m not surprised he’s tried to use his son to shame people from wanting healthcare as a human right rather than a business they have to struggle to afford.

It’s an outrageous ploy to try to shame simple-minded people into struggling and dying so corrupt lawmakers can pocket pay-offs. Unforgivable.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2019 12:20 am
Vice’s take on the ad:

Joe Biden: It Would Be an Insult to My Dead Son for Everyone to Have Healthcare
The former vice president released an ad invoking family tragedy and attacking rivals who have plans to ensure everyone has access to healthcare.

By Tim Marchman
Aug 27 2019, 4:55pm

In a new campaign ad, former vice president Joe Biden suggests that for all Americans to have healthcare would be an insult to his son, Beau Biden, who died of brain cancer in 2015. Watch for yourself:

0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  4  
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2019 01:09 am
@edgarblythe,
Snod is right. that vice article is incredibly santed and inaccurate as to what biden actually said.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2019 01:27 am
@MontereyJack,
If you know much about commercials, you know what is being sold—and you know the words are many times a bit of obfuscating plausible deniability amid the images and music designed to sell the product.

The package says don’t sin against Obama, and me and my dead family members. They died, so should you.

The fight is healthcare for profit vs healthcare as a human right.

He’s pulling out all the stops to keep Americans stupid—dying because they can’t afford medical care. With black maternal mortality rising constantly, it is beginning to be recognized as an intentional deadly winnowing of poor people / POC in this country.

Healthcare for profit is murder.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2019 03:00 am
Sanders’s flawed statistic: 500,000 medical bankruptcies a year
Quote:
“500,000 people go bankrupt every year because they cannot pay their outrageous medical bills.”
— Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), in an interview on CNN's "Stae of the Union" Aug. 25, 2019

“500,000 Americans will go bankrupt this year from medical bills.”
— Sanders, in a tweet, Aug. 20, 2019

[...]

The Pinocchio Test
This is a classic case of cherry-picking a number from a scientific study and twisting it to make a political point.

Sanders’s statements — “500,000 people go bankrupt every year because they cannot pay their outrageous medical bills” and “500,000 Americans will go bankrupt this year from medical bills” — are unambiguous. He’s saying medical debts caused those 500,000 bankruptcies. However, correlation is not causation, and the study he’s citing doesn’t establish causation for all 500,000 bankruptcy cases.

One of the authors sent us rough estimates showing that Sanders might be on target, but those numbers deserve scientific scrutiny before they can be taken as fact.

In the meantime, the statistic Sanders’s campaign cited includes bankrupt debtors for whom medical expenses may have been a minor or relatively small contributing factor. A different, peer-reviewed study arrived at a much different conclusion, suggesting the medical bankruptcy rate is far lower, although it measured only hospital patients and not all types of medical debt.

The omissions and twists are significant enough to merit Three Pinocchios for Sanders.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2019 04:52 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Sanders’s flawed statistic: 500,000 medical bankruptcies a year
Quote:
“500,000 people go bankrupt every year because they cannot pay their outrageous medical bills.”
— Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), in an interview on CNN's "Stae of the Union" Aug. 25, 2019

“500,000 Americans will go bankrupt this year from medical bills.”
— Sanders, in a tweet, Aug. 20, 2019

[...]

The Pinocchio Test
This is a classic case of cherry-picking a number from a scientific study and twisting it to make a political point.

Sanders’s statements — “500,000 people go bankrupt every year because they cannot pay their outrageous medical bills” and “500,000 Americans will go bankrupt this year from medical bills” — are unambiguous. He’s saying medical debts caused those 500,000 bankruptcies. However, correlation is not causation, and the study he’s citing doesn’t establish causation for all 500,000 bankruptcy cases.

One of the authors sent us rough estimates showing that Sanders might be on target, but those numbers deserve scientific scrutiny before they can be taken as fact.

In the meantime, the statistic Sanders’s campaign cited includes bankrupt debtors for whom medical expenses may have been a minor or relatively small contributing factor. A different, peer-reviewed study arrived at a much different conclusion, suggesting the medical bankruptcy rate is far lower, although it measured only hospital patients and not all types of medical debt.

The omissions and twists are significant enough to merit Three Pinocchios for Sanders.



Great example of bullshit liars in the media desperately attempting to assassinate Bernie’s character. Bernie doesn’t have to lie about the state of the US regarding the malpractice of for-profit healthcare. People are suffering and dying. The pharmaceutical industry loves becoming multi millionaires on the backs of the electorate.

You’ll see plenty more lies about this issue, and you’ll see people desperate for change striking them down.


——————
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/02/11/this-is-the-real-reason-most-americans-file-for-bankruptcy.html

Filing for bankruptcy is often considered a worst-case scenario.
And for many Americans who do pursue that last-ditch effort to rescue their finances, it is because of one reason: health-care costs.
A new study from academic researchers found that 66.5 percent of all bankruptcies were tied to medical issues —either because of high costs for care or time out of work. An estimated 530,000 families turn to bankruptcy each year because of medical issues and bills, the research found.
Walter Hinteler
 
  5  
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2019 05:36 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
Great example of bullshit liars in the media desperately attempting to assassinate Bernie’s character.
It's not "the media", but the Washington Post reporting (with links) about some facts.


If you'd read what I'd posted, you would have noticed that the report you quoted above is included in my quoted WaPo-article.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2019 08:37 am
@Lash,
Quote:
Great example of bullshit liars in the media desperately attempting to assassinate Bernie’s character.
No difference - none - with Trump's attacks on news media. You have great intellectual and moral standards, Lash.
revelette1
 
  2  
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2019 08:45 am
@blatham,
I agree, it is just sometimes, I think she is stretching herself too thin in her campaigning, she comes off as kind of shaky. However she is drawing huge crowds. I am not sure why.
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2019 08:46 am
@snood,
Quote:
Goddam that’s disingenuous, Edgar. Just tell the truth and stop twisting things to make Bernie perfect and everything else corrupt.

Sucks when someone twists words to make someone say something they never said. Too bad you can't apply this to the media and the disingenuous way in which they report the news.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2019 08:47 am
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
Snod is right. that vice article is incredibly santed and inaccurate as to what biden actually said.

That's the only way places like that do news. It's funny you have a problem with it when it targeted at someone you support.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2019 09:06 am
@revelette1,
I guess it's impossible to make any simple statement as to why any politico draws huge audiences. Admiration and affinity (however they are established) obviously play a big role. And then there's the contrasts between that person and his/her opponents. Not very helpful, am I?

But I would wager that many are welcoming to a female candidate who stands as such a contrast with Trump and Trumpism and with the status quo of loud, strident males (Mayor Pete seems to me a similar phenomenon).
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2019 10:44 am
@blatham,
I think everyone know what Lash and Edgar are trying to push. Bernie the God. Sad that they are tainting him with their b s. He really does have some good ideas with absolutely no way of implementing them.
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
GAFFNEY: Whose side is Obama on? - Discussion by gungasnake
 
Copyright © 2021 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.16 seconds on 12/04/2021 at 02:18:04