Progressives (Liberals)

I have zero faith that we can expect an accurate accounting of the vote, in primaries, in the 2020 election - maybe ever again. The tipping point may be behind us. It's not just because of the story I've linked, but this is pretty dire.

FEDERAL ELECTION COMMISSION TO EFFECTIVELY SHUT DOWN.
https://publicintegrity.org/federal-politics/federal-election-commission-fec-to-effectively-shut-down/

1 Reply

@RABEL222,

RABEL222 wrote:

I think everyone know what Lash and Edgar are trying to push. Bernie the God. Sad that they are tainting him with their b s. He really does have some good ideas with absolutely no way of implementing them.

It really isn’t Bernie that causes people to turn off from Bernie. He does have his heart in the right place and I think his zeal is for the most part genuine. It’s his constantly hectoring, posturing, dissembling, conspiracy theorizing minions. And it’s only a minority’s of them, I think.

1 Reply

@RABEL222,

Quote:

I think everyone know what Lash and Edgar are trying to push. Bernie the God. Sad that they are tainting him with their b s. He really does have some good ideas with absolutely no way of implementing them.

I see similarities between the Sanders movement and Occupy Wall Street (or even the 60s hippy thing of which I was a card-carrying pot-smoking member). The dream and goal are unquestionably good. But getting from A to B, there's the rub.

0 Replies

@edgarblythe,

Quote:

I have zero faith that we can expect an accurate accounting of the vote, in primaries, in the 2020 election - maybe ever again.

Correct me if wrong but I don't think the FEC has much if anything to do with primary voting.

1 Reply

@snood,

Quote:

It’s his constantly hectoring, posturing, dissembling, conspiracy theorizing minions. And it’s only a minority’s of them, I think.

Quote:

-Sen. Bernie Sanders was "central" to Russia's efforts to interfere in the 2016 election, according to a new study.
-The study suggests the Russians looked as Sanders as a tool to drive a wedge in the Democratic party more than was previously known.
-Of the Russian tweets the researchers analyzed, roughly 9,000 used the word "Bernie," which were "liked" 59,281 times and retweeted 61,804 times.

more here

Let's note that it isn't merely Russian operatives who are playing this game. It will also be GOP operatives (doing a reprise of the Obama/McCain period). And it isn't merely passing along a "Hillary is evil" meme but also a "the DNC and Dem party are evil or corrupt or just like the Republicans" meme.

The goal is to cause disaffection and disappointment and anger in the Dem base so as to suppress enthusiasm, activism and voting.

And these folks are loading up social media that Bernie supporters attend to (of course that will be their main target). Not all Bernie supporters will fall prey but clearly many are. The political curse of social media is misinformation and consumers' lack of critical thinking on data sources.

1 Reply

@blatham,

I said my article was but one portion of the story. The voter suppression and stolen votes predates 2016 but has steadily grown worse. Sad to say, both parties have participated.

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@blatham,

This blaming Sanders for Russian interference is such total horse **** it's hard to dignify it with a response. That the Russians exploited every possible avenue they thought of to screw up Clinton's campaign is likely true, but to tar and feather Sanders because they did so is not just wrong, it's despicable that people would try to hold it over Sanders in any way.

2 Replies

@edgarblythe,

Quote:

This blaming Sanders for Russian interference is such total horse **** it's hard to dignify it with a response.

Except I didn't blame Sanders. I don't blame him. We were/are talking about the manipulation of his supporters. Please tell me you get the difference here.

1 Reply

@blatham,

Then what? Portraying his supporters as too stupid to hold convictions or to know the issues?

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

Let's turn that question on you. Do you hold that, say, Biden supporters are too stupid to hold convictions and know the issues?

The answer will be, in both cases, some. But those researching Russia's activities and influence can determine to some degree of accuracy how many Sanders' supporters either retweet or give a thumbs up to posts written by the Russian troll army. Further, we can quite easily note the similar or identical ideas flowing from those guys into the discourse that Sanders' supporters engage in.

This isn't nothing, Edgar. This is a real thing.

1 Reply

@blatham,

If somebody repeats a Sanders line as propaganda, it would have to be true, nonetheless. How could it falsely influence someone? Or if a propaganda piece points out the Democratic Party cheating against Sanders, we all know it happened, so how would we be influenced to change our course of action. I personally didn't see Russian propaganda pieces unless they were factual enough to fool me. But they did not influence me one way or the other, since I made up my mind before the primaries were close, just like this year.

As for Biden, I think people who seriously support him are influenced by propaganda, not Russian, but American media. They see an image of stability and must not be looking beyond a myth built around him. He has always been a right-wing character and he will squash any progressive initiatives. I consider him mostly braindead. If you want any increments you will avoid this guy.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

Quote:

If somebody repeats a Sanders line as propaganda, it would have to be true, nonetheless. How could it falsely influence someone?

That's a bit unclear. I've not talked about quotes from Sanders.

Are you suggesting that the massive Russian attempts were and are designed to tell American voters the truth? Designed to help America out?

2 Replies

@blatham,

I never saw something that I could characterize as Russian propaganda. Maybe I hang out with the wrong crowd. What I meant was, the propaganda would have to get close to the truth but play with the emotions or something. One thing I know for sure is that Sanders' base of support has not diminished in four years and I personally think the Russian machine stories are a red herring.

2 Replies

@edgarblythe,

The American media rolls out reams of anti-Sanders propaganda on a daily basis, countering anything the Russians are capable of.

0 Replies

David Doel
@daviddoel
·
2h
Washington Post: "Bernie is wrong! There aren't 500,000 medical bankruptcies a year."

Also Washington Post (From February): "There are 530,000 medical bankruptcies a year."

0 Replies

@edgarblythe,

Quote:

I personally think the Russian machine stories are a red herring.

So the intel agencies of the US and other nations along with private internet companies (Faeebook, Twitter, etc) and those companies here and abroad that follow internet activities for reasons of security not to mention the major news media operations here and elsewhere are all out to mislead and distract? That you or anyone would imagine them all pushing that particular red herring out into the world is certainly convenient for the Russians.

1 Reply

@blatham,

What did they accomplish, re Sanders? He still has his base four years later and they still want the same things: a progressive agenda. How exactly have they screwed this up?

1 Reply

@blatham,

Designed to emphasize divisions that already existed. Many times, they just retweeted original material from Americans. A nothing burger.

The real boogeymen were cheating Democrats and the Clinton campaign. They ACTUALLY cheated.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

If you want a reason why the Bernie faction couldent overcome Hillary look at the primaries. Where everyone could vote, something you and lash don't want to see, she kicked his ass. Its something the Bernie clan refuse to acknowledge. They have to believe he was robbed. Disingenuous to their core.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

Quote:

What did they accomplish, re Sanders?

Their goal was Hillary out and Trump in. Their goal now will be Trump in and any viable Dem contender thwarted. If Sanders becomes the candidate, they'll come after him with their entire apparatus and you don't want to imagine they'll be ineffective.

Are we in the same conversation, edgar?

1 Reply

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