Olivier5
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 12 Jul, 2019 02:20 pm
@oralloy,
That's because you didn't say anything.
oralloy
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Jul, 2019 02:22 pm
@Olivier5,
That is incorrect. I refuted a bunch of Moore's untrue claims.

But... even if it had actually been correct that I had not said anything, it would still have been wrong to claim that had spouted falsehoods.
Olivier5
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 12 Jul, 2019 02:24 pm
@oralloy,
Show me where, then.
oralloy
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Jul, 2019 02:26 pm
@Olivier5,
I just did that a few minutes ago.
Olivier5
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 12 Jul, 2019 02:26 pm
@oralloy,
I didn't see it.
oralloy
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Jul, 2019 02:28 pm
@Olivier5,
Here is the post where I refuted all of Moore's untrue claims:
http://able2know.org/topic/468987-412#post-6871548

Here is the post where I just pointed you to that post:
http://able2know.org/topic/468987-413#post-6871728
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Fri 12 Jul, 2019 04:22 pm
@oralloy,
Okay, I had not seen this.

1. No, the city of Flint was not bankrupt when the state government took over its finances and hence its management. "Bankrupt" has a precise meaning in law and it did not apply.

2. The decision to switch from lake Huron to the Flint river as a primary source of water was made to save money, as per official declarations at the time:
Quote:
The switch was proposed to save the city $5 million in less than two years.

https://www.mlive.com/news/flint/2015/10/how_the_flint_water_crisis_eme.html

3. About the cost of the anti-leeching aditive, Moore correctly states: "I guess that was too much." He doesn't overstate his case.


Anything else I can do for you?
hawkeye10
 
  3  
Reply Fri 12 Jul, 2019 05:43 pm
The Regressive Left are not Liberals, they are completely Illiberal. Liberals are guys like me who had to leave the orthodox Left because we could not take the stench anymore of ignorance often willful and too rarely overcome because the left does not care enough to turn in better work, they are too busy working on their careers and trying to get their way....and get wealthy of course.

Liberals of any quality are unwilling to agree with this abuse of the people that we have all over now.
oralloy
 
  3  
Reply Fri 12 Jul, 2019 07:22 pm
@hawkeye10,
Welcome back!

I hope you stick around. We need more of the good guys here.
oralloy
 
  3  
Reply Fri 12 Jul, 2019 07:23 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
1. No, the city of Flint was not bankrupt when the state government took over its finances and hence its management. "Bankrupt" has a precise meaning in law and it did not apply.

On what basis do you claim that the precise meaning in law did not apply?

Even if the precise meaning in law didn't apply, the general English language understanding of the term bankruptcy accurately described Flint's financial situation.

Moore's characterization of these state takeovers of local government as an attempt to cut services in order to pay for tax cuts is completely untrue.


Olivier5 wrote:
2. The decision to switch from lake Huron to the Flint river as a primary source of water was made to save money, as per official declarations at the time:
Quote:
The switch was proposed to save the city $5 million in less than two years.
https://www.mlive.com/news/flint/2015/10/how_the_flint_water_crisis_eme.html

Look at the article you cited again.

First they made the decision to switch from "Lake Huron water from the Detroit water system" to "Lake Huron water from their own water system". This is covered under Time for change at the beginning of the article.

Then Detroit cut off their water. This is covered under Detroit backs out in the middle of the article.

Then, after Detroit cut off their water, they switched to the Flint River. This is covered under To the river and The river plan at the end of the article.


Olivier5 wrote:
3. About the cost of the anti-leeching aditive, Moore correctly states: "I guess that was too much." He doesn't overstate his case.
Anything else I can do for you?

Moore clearly stated that the state government made the decision to not treat the river water. Where is the evidence that this decision came from the state government?

Moore clearly stated that they made this decision with the goal of not spending money on the trivially cheap water treatment. Where is the evidence that this was the motivation for the decision?
hawkeye10
 
  5  
Reply Fri 12 Jul, 2019 07:27 pm
@oralloy,
Not likely....I am at "Fed up with morons and otherwise substandard people, and DONE!"

Life is short, I refuse to waste substantial time with people once I figure out that too many are inferior.

We might only live once!
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 13 Jul, 2019 01:39 am
@oralloy,
1. Nope. They hadn't called for bankrupcy.

2. I doubt Detroit threatened to cut water no matter what. Like any company, they need clients... mRead further. Once inhabitants started to complain, the Detroit Water folks proposed to reconnect Flint to their system without reconnection fee.

3. The state government was in charge of the town and its finances. So they took the decision.
hawkeye10
 
  4  
Reply Sat 13 Jul, 2019 01:46 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

1. Nope. They hadn't called for bankrupcy.

2. I doubt Detroit threatened to cut water no matter what. Like any company, they need clients... mRead further. Once inhabitants started to complain, the Detroit Water folks proposed to reconnect Flint to their system without reconnection fee.

3. The state government was in charge of the town and its finances. So they took the decision.


And yet the wrong thing got done, because those in charge did the wrong thing, and just as importantly all those who knew that the wrong thing was being done refused to speak up.

This is your problem.

America has failed wholesale!
Olivier5
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 13 Jul, 2019 01:53 am
@hawkeye10,
And when Moore speaks up, he is called a liar...
hawkeye10
 
  4  
Reply Sat 13 Jul, 2019 01:56 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

And when Moore speaks up, he is called a liar...


Almost none of us care about truth anymore, this is how you can be certain that the West is dying.

Did you have some other point?

Full thoughts are awesome!!
Olivier5
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 13 Jul, 2019 02:02 am
@hawkeye10,
Everybody cares about truth. You guys just decided to take a vacation from it, but you'll come back once the vacation is over.

The thing with reality, is that you ignore it at your peril. It doesn't actually disappear when you stop paying attention to it.
hawkeye10
 
  3  
Reply Sat 13 Jul, 2019 02:05 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Everybody cares about truth. You guys just decided to take a vacation from it, but you'll come back once the vacation is over.

The thing with reality, is that you ignore it at your peril. It doesn't actually disappear when you stop paying attention to it.


OH MAN, U R so out of it!
oralloy
 
  3  
Reply Sat 13 Jul, 2019 02:18 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
1. Nope. They hadn't called for bankrupcy.

That does not change the reality that they were bankrupt.


Olivier5 wrote:
2. I doubt Detroit threatened to cut water no matter what.

Detroit did more than threaten. They cut off the water.


Olivier5 wrote:
Like any company, they need clients...

Involuntary clients, in this case. Like store owners who pay protection money to the mafia because someone will burn down their store if they don't.


Olivier5 wrote:
Read further. Once inhabitants started to complain, the Detroit Water folks proposed to reconnect Flint to their system without reconnection fee.

Gosh. How generous. How unaffordable would the new water rates have been, had Flint taken Detroit up on this "offer"?


Olivier5 wrote:
3. The state government was in charge of the town and its finances. So they took the decision.

Let's see some evidence that the decision came from them.
oralloy
 
  3  
Reply Sat 13 Jul, 2019 02:20 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
And when Moore speaks up, he is called a liar...

Perhaps Moore should stop spouting so many falsehoods.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 13 Jul, 2019 02:22 am
@hawkeye10,
I don’t think so.
 

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