edgarblythe
 
  0  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2019 04:54 pm
@Setanta,
That is projection on your part and trying to read my mind. Razz
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2019 04:59 pm
I discovered today that three Democratic contenders list James Joyce among favorite authors - Ulysses in particular. I am not surprised that intelligent persons have read it, but considering the controversy attached to it, I didn't expect anyone to admit it. That doesn't change my mind about anyone's politics, but it's interesting. Just like Al Gore going around singing Dylan's songs sometimes.
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2019 05:32 pm
@edgarblythe,
Not at all--you've been moping around for years with this Bernie can do no evil narrative, claiming he would solve all of societies problems. I think you lack a sense of proportion when iut comes to Sanders.
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2019 05:40 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

There is a parallel universe where george dropped acid and went down a better sort of rabbit hole than the one he found in this universe.

Mind you, in that other universe, I prefer to wear women's panties. So, big contrast for george, none for me.


You’re so bad
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2019 06:14 pm
@Setanta,
I notice nobody spends much time answering the negatives about mainstream candidates. Is it because they think not being Trump or Sanders makes them presidential material, COD, no questions asked?
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2019 08:04 pm
Sanders' supporters haven't forgotten their beef with Clinton — and it's an ugly problem for the DNC in 2020
https://www.businessinsider.com/a-2016-hangover-some-bernie-sanders-supporters-still-upset-2019-4
Alexandra Jaffe, Hunter Woodall, Meg Kinnard, Associated Press 1h
bernie sanders campaign
In this March 23, 2019, file photo, Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., center right, and his wife, Jane, arrive at a rally at Grand Park in Los Angeles. Damian Dovarganes, File via AP
Bernie Sanders' second presidential run has surfaced some remaining tensions among his supporters from his 2016 campaign.
Amid a crowded Democratic field, Sanders has hit the ground running with $18.2 million raised in the first quarter and highlighting his success in bringing the party around on liberal policies it once resisted.
Despite his success, several Sanders loyalists have still expressed concern about the campaign's relationship with the Democratic National Committee, which they say stems from the party's open favoring of nominee Hillary Clinton in 2016.

IOWA CITY, Iowa (AP) — It was hard to miss Cheri Pichone's excitement about Bernie Sanders' second presidential run. She showed up to a recent Iowa rally decked out in Sanders gear, complete with a figurine of the Vermont senator and progressive icon.

But underneath her exuberance, the 36-year-old was still mad about the last Democratic primary, when Sanders' bid for the presidency fell short to Hillary Clinton.

"They cheated," she said, directing much of her anger at the Democratic National Committee. The party establishment, she lamented, was "actively working against us."

Pichone voted for Green Party candidate Jill Stein in 2016 and said she may vote for a third party again if Sanders doesn't clinch the nomination.

She's emblematic of a persistent group of Sanders supporters who won't let go of the slights — real and perceived — from the last campaign. The frustration is notable now that Sanders is a 2020 front-runner, raking in $18.2 million in the first quarter, downplaying concerns about DNC bias and highlighting his success in bringing the party around on liberal policies it once resisted.

Lingering concerns

Some establishment-aligned Democrats worry the party could lose in 2020 if lingering concerns about the last primary aren't put to bed.

"It has the potential to escalate, and it has the potential to help re-elect Donald Trump," said Mo Elleithee, a former spokesman for Clinton and the DNC.

The acrimony stems from a fiercely fought campaign and a sense among Sanders loyalists that party leaders privately favored Clinton. DNC leaders at the time scheduled fewer debates than Republicans and sometimes slated them for nights with low television viewership. Often opaque delegate allocation rules also contributed to a belief among some Sanders supporters that the primary was essentially rigged.

According to data from the Pew Research Center, the tension took a toll. About 81% of people who consistently supported Sanders during the primary season and were confirmed to have voted in the general election said they ultimately voted for Clinton, while 11% said they supported Stein or Libertarian nominee Gary Johnson, and 3% supported Trump.

In a closely contested election, those moves away from Clinton may have factored into the results.

Since the election, party leaders have sought to smooth things over with Sanders and his supporters. DNC Chairman Tom Perez is planning a robust debate schedule. The rules governing superdelegates — party insiders who overwhelmingly backed Clinton — have changed.

Sanders has publicly expressed confidence in the process this time around, but in terms that suggest he won't soon forget 2016.

"In 2016, I think I will not shock anybody to suggest that the DNC was not quite evenhanded," he said during a CNN town hall in February. "I think we have come a long way since then, and I fully expect to be treated quite as well as anybody else."

In an interview Friday, Sanders campaign manager Faiz Shakir echoed that optimism.

"If you're talking to anyone at the Democratic National Committee who's there now, I'm sure they will tell you that their relationship with the Bernie Sanders campaign is great and that we are operating in good faith and we are talking to each other on an almost daily basis," he said. "Anyone suggesting that there's any kind of friction there is living in the past. They are living with some grudges that they are holding onto from a bygone time."

Still, the campaign has made some moves that raise questions about whether resentments from 2016 will linger.

Briahna Joy Gray, formerly a liberal journalist who voted for Stein, is Sanders' national press secretary. Nina Turner, who called the DNC "dictatorial and pompous" in 2017, is one of his national campaign chairs.

And some of Sanders' most loyal supporters in the crucial early voting states say they're not ready to fully move on.
Nicholas Shaw, a 39-year-old from Concord, New Hampshire, spent his recent birthday watching Sanders speak.

Like Pichone, he said he wouldn't support the Democratic nominee if it's anyone other than Sanders.

"If they steal it from him again, I'll go independent or something other than that," he said. "The Democratic Party's on their last edge of me if they kind of try to screw him again."

Even in South Carolina, where Sanders lost momentum after a 47-point drubbing from Clinton, some supporters are still smarting over a process they believe was rigged.

"Lost might be a stretch," said Tom Amon, of Summerville, when asked how he felt about Sanders' ability to perform better in South Carolina than he did in the 2016 primary. "It was stolen from him."
___
Woodall reported from Manchester, New Hampshire, and Kinnard reported from North Charleston, South Carolina. Associated Press writer Juana Summers in Davenport, Iowa, contributed to this report.
___

0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2019 10:14 pm
Quote:
Pichone voted for Green Party candidate Jill Stein in 2016 and said she may vote for a third party again if Sanders doesn't clinch the nomination.


This person I honestly think I do not give any shits about.

Whether my side wins or loses, these people are the worst in America.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2019 10:18 pm
Full_on_Cynic
@Full_On_Cynic
·
I wanna see 10 years of Bernie’s grocery receipts. What is he hiding? Does he buy more chips or pretzels? Does he buy that ragedy ass single ply TP? I need to know because those are deal breakers
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2019 10:19 pm
@edgarblythe,
You would need to address such a question to those whose lack of inquisitiveness dismays you.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2019 10:23 pm
Ah, lucky Lash--she's found an opportunity to piss and moan about Clinton again.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2019 10:33 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

You would need to address such a question to those whose lack of inquisitiveness dismays you.

So we go over Sanders like sheep in a turnip patch, but everyone else gets a pass.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2019 10:36 pm
@edgarblythe,
As I said, you need to address those whose attitude offends you.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2019 01:19 am
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
three Democratic contenders list James Joyce among favorite authors - Ulysses in particular. 

Who are they, may I ask?

(I always thought Joyce was a fake author, and Ulysses a fake book.)
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2019 02:30 am
Quote:

Even in South Carolina, where Sanders lost momentum after a 47-point drubbing from Clinton, some supporters are still smarting over a process they believe was rigged.

Ballot stuffing and voter intimidation on an epic scale, no doubt. How old are people anyway?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2019 03:47 am
@edgarblythe,
Come on, Edgar. A continuing delay on release of Sanders' tax returns is problematic in its own right (maximal transparency) but particularly because we are, for very good reasons, demanding it of Trump.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2019 03:57 am
@Setanta,
The AP piece she's linked was covered at Talking Points Memo yesterday as well as in her link to Business Insider. In her header, she writes
Quote:
Sanders' supporters haven't forgotten their beef with Clinton
The piece itself notes
Quote:
[Pichone is] emblematic of a persistent group of Sanders supporters who won’t let go of the slights

It isn't "Sanders' supporters", it is "a persistent group of" them.

Lash isn't merely targeting Clinton in all these posts, of course. She's targeting the Democratic party. That is her enemy.
Setanta
 
  5  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2019 05:06 am
@blatham,
That's exactly my point over many posts. Lash is using Sanders as a smoke screen for her relentless attacks on the Democratic Party, just as she used him as a smoke screen for attacking Clinton in 2016. She has consistently attacked the Clintons for sixteen years at this site. Supporting Sanders was just another opportunity. In your monitoring thread she once wrote that Plump is her president, and the Republicans are her party. When I later pointed that out, she first admitted it, then demanded that I prove it. (She must have been hitting the sauce that night.) I'm sure she thinks she's clever--whether or not she does, like the Russians from the troll farm that we get here, she's come to realize that she need only hammer a particular point, and deceive the unwary. She has gotten a lot of undeserved sympathy, too. Lately, Nimh went after me for my remarks to her. I had pointed out that she had referred to the Democrats as "your party" when addressing someone else. Nimh said that my criticixm of her for that was a non sequitur. He's one of the sharper knives in the drawer, but without the greater context, he doesn't see the pattern.

Lash's posts are toxic content, and it's not always recognized.
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2019 05:33 am
@blatham,
Which of the D candidates has released their tax returns? Why is it ONLY SANDERS you’re ‘concerned’ about?

Lash
 
  0  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2019 05:34 am
@blatham,
My enemy is political corruption—the chips fall on both parties.
blatham
 
  5  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2019 05:40 am
@Setanta,
I know. Nimh, who I also respect, and I got into a similar tussle a while back. That conversation led me to give her a second chance and so I attended to her posts acknowledging that I might have had her wrong. But that hasn't worked out well. She continues to behave precisely as she would if she was pretending something quite at odds with her real beliefs.

As I've mentioned before here and as I've explained to nimh, the research that I did in 2008 on the Clintons4McCain/PUMA "movement" taught me a lot about how such covert dirty-tricks operations get done. And this was the first dedicated propaganda campaign using social media that I'd bumped into (and even then it was a fairly sophisticated operation - a guy named Bowers was the techie running that end of the show). I now know what to look for. I also know (to a certainty of something like 99%) that such operations will be in place presently and that figures in the pro-Sanders movement will be covert right wing operatives whose goal will be to damage Dem electoral hopes through fomenting dissent and dissatisfaction among Dem voters. In that earlier case, some amount of funding came from the RNC but it probably paid for a small group of organizers and front men. The much broader array of folks involved were just Republican activists/sympathizers knowingly or unknowingly aiding the effort.

I have very little doubt remaining as regards what Lash is up to. Edgar is not the same sort of individual. His behavior is much different and though we clearly are at odds on some stuff, I trust his sincerity completely.

0 Replies
 
 

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