blatham
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2019 02:29 am
@revelette1,
Quote:
On the other hand an honest new look needs to happen with Israel and Palestine and oppression of the Palestinian people.
Certainly. That is what I meant when I said the moral issues were clear.

Folks may recall that when the Bush admin went to Britain to get Blair on board in attacking Iraq, the Brits wanted the Palestinian matter addressed before any war because they had concluded that issue was the main driver behind Muslim anger towards the West. But Blair got rolled by the Trump people who were not much interested in Palestinian suffering or justice but were very interested in oil and in increasing their military footprint in the middle east.

All of that is true but it remains the case that AIPAC has enough clout that anyone who is critical of it's influence and who then takes AIPAC on will very definitely collect a lot of loud yelling voices attacking them. It's a key way AIPAC maintains its influence.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2019 02:36 am
More swamp draining news
Quote:
Federal regulators moved on Wednesday to ease oversight of the country’s largest banks and other financial firms, continuing a push by the Trump administration to reverse rules that were put in place following the 2008 financial crisis.
NYT

Which won't be a problem for Trump supporters because Rupert Murdoch has made them stupider than they started out (an accomplishment of some note).
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2019 02:56 am

Jon Stall 🔥 M4A
@JonStall2009
·
Mar 5
Replying to
@NitaLowey
I am saddened that you continue to mischaracterize not only antisemitism but the lobbying of AIPAC done on behalf of Israel.
AIPAC should additionally register as an agent of a foreign power per The Foreign Agents Registration Act of 1938.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -4  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2019 02:56 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:
Folks may recall that when the Bush admin went to Britain to get Blair on board in attacking Iraq, the Brits wanted the Palestinian matter addressed before any war because they had concluded that issue was the main driver behind Muslim anger towards the West.
How exactly would anyone address "the Palestinian matter" anyway?

Put all the Palestinians in prison cells so they can't murder anyone?

blatham wrote:
But Blair got rolled by the Trump people who were not much interested in Palestinian suffering or justice but were very interested in oil and in increasing their military footprint in the middle east.
Palestinians suffer for one reason only: they refuse to ever make peace.

There is no injustice in their suffering. Refusing to make peace is their own decision. What's happening to them is their own fault.
0 Replies
 
Below viewing threshold (view)
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2019 03:22 am
Quote:
I'm shocked at how she’s being attacked. THIS VERY BEHAVIOR proves Omar’s point: Israel has too much pull in American government.

Quote:
Shame on you. Jews do not secretly control the world.

Nor do they have big cyclops eyes, but then, I said neither thing, did I? That’s my primary complaint with Congress and other bought-off asslickers in this story: they, like you, are hiding behind hyperbole, attempting to create quotes to argue with, basically lying in the face of the country.

Jews are not equated with Israel, her lobbyists and other agents except by you, people like you, and our paid off congress—both parties. Money talks in DC.
Below viewing threshold (view)
Lash
 
  3  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2019 04:06 am
@oralloy,
The person who equates “Israel has too much pull in American government” with “Jews control the world” is the antisemite.

And the accusation is true.

I’m sending you on vacation. Nothing is gained by interaction.
hightor
 
  5  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2019 04:44 am
Quote:

If the Palestinians ever decide to make peace with Israel, the left will immediately make a huge comeback there.

Likud and its right-wing affiliates have pretty much precluded any meaningful peace accord with the Palestinians. The subjugation of the Arab population has become an effective method of attracting political support.

If Israel ever decides to make peace with the Palestinians, I and many others around the world would welcome it back into the international progressive community. Then the only critics of the country would be the true historical racist anti-semites, clutching their copies of "The Protocols..."
oralloy
 
  -4  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2019 05:24 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
Likud and its right-wing affiliates have pretty much precluded any meaningful peace accord with the Palestinians.
Likud is only in power because the Palestinians refuse to make peace with Israel.

If the Palestinians ever decided to make peace, Israeli voters would put a different government in power.

hightor wrote:
The subjugation of the Arab population has become an effective method of attracting political support.
No such subjugation. Israel merely defends themselves from aggression.

hightor wrote:
If Israel ever decides to make peace with the Palestinians, I and many others around the world would welcome it back into the international progressive community.
Israel has been trying to make peace with the Palestinians for more than 20 years. Your contention that they haven't is disgusting.

Shame on you.
0 Replies
 
Below viewing threshold (view)
revelette1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2019 09:04 am
@Lash,
I agree. Shocked lol
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2019 11:35 am
@Lash,
Quote:
Antisemitic trope, my ass.

But it is exactly that, whether or not she holds any ugly notions about Jews.

And it isn't anti-Muslim merely to criticize her for the manner in which she stated her point (although we all know that anti-Arab/anti-Muslim rhetoric is now a major feature of modern conservatism in the US not to mention in Israeli political and religious rhetoric.

Omar is a political neophyte in national/international politics. We can expect mistakes even if the mistakes are merely saying something that her enemies can easily spin into something that looks ugly (and they almost always do - ask Obama).

Sanders, Warren and Harris are supporting her and stand against the resolution. I think they are right to do so. That resolution was, I'm sure, brought about by exactly what Omar was pointing to (the power/influence of the Israeli lobby). And we would be foolish and naive to doubt that some of the voices pushing to put Omar in this negative light are Likud-influenced and who do not want a Dem to take the WH next election.

But this is all noise and it is a silly distraction. It is also a comforting benefit to those who wish and works towards Dems fighting with Dems.

There is no goal even close to being as important as ensuring Trump does not win another election. We are going to make headway on the matter of Palestine/Israel with the GOP in power?



coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2019 11:45 am
@blatham,
Quote:
although we all know that anti-Arab/anti-Muslim rhetoric

The rhetoric is anti-Islam. And it has been around since the religion relied on the sword and terror which is still being to advance the religion.

Jews are not killing people around the world with bombs and mass shootings, they are simply living in a sovereign Jewish state and they will and should defend it.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2019 12:00 pm
Think Progress has a good piece up on this Omar issue
Quote:
...The double standard hits at what many progressive Jewish leaders say is the bigger issue about the backlash Omar is now facing.

“Did Ilhan use some phrases that I wish she hadn’t and that I don’t want to defend? Yes,” said Max Berger, co-founder of IfNotNow, an American Jewish movement to end support for the occupation. “But the point she was making substantively is absolutely true, and the reason that she’s facing the level of anger… coming at her that she is, has everything to do with her politics, and who she is, and very little to do with the fact that she used an anti-Semitic trope.”
HERE, it's worthwhile

coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2019 12:03 pm
@blatham,
Quote:
Think Progress has a good piece up on this Omar issue

Think Progress, itself, is a piece of ****.
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2019 12:11 pm
This you guys will want to read. The political writers at NYMag get together for a discussion about the Omar thing. Here's the first bit... MORE HERE
Quote:
Jon: How about a resolution simply stating that Steve King’s views on all minorities are more offensive that Omar’s statements about American Zionists? That might satisfy everybody.

Ed: Adding Islamophobia to the items condemned in the resolution is another potential angle.

Jon: It already mentioned Islamophobia.

Ed: Sorry, I may not be keeping up with versions of this.

Ben: I don’t see the point of a resolution in the first place. The whole thing feels like overkill — like a silly distraction.

Max: Last night the Daily Beast was reporting that one option on the table was a resolution condemning “all hate.”

Ed: Condemning “all hate” is pretty edgy, eh?


Max: It’s the kind of bold stand that makes me proud to be a Democrat.

Jon: Counterpoint: The party’s strong stance of opposing hate against everybody is a good thing.

Max: I cede the point.

Ed: Meanwhile, for Republicans, this is like a three-cushion shot: They get to claim that Democrats are hypocrites; they pander to the Christian right and whatever Jews are open to their appeals; and they can indirectly protect Trump and the entire GOP hate machine. Oh, and I left out the fourth cushion: 10,000 more “Democrats in Disarray” stories. I could see a take with a headline like: “For Republicans, Attacks on Omar Are Peak Whataboutism.” They’ll be talking about Omar for years.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  4  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2019 12:13 pm
@coldjoint,
Quote:
Think Progress, itself, is a piece of ****.

That's an intellectually lazy way of criticizing a political opinion with which you disagree. Unless you're just here to break political wind your criticism would be much more effective if it was accompanied by an actual argument where you lay out your case logically and provide citations if needed. You really need to step up your game instead of just polluting threads with tiresome one liners inspired by biased SSM accounts of the news.
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2019 12:18 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
instead of just polluting threads

Like you do with NYT articles? If you do not like what I post, that is your problem, not mine.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2019 12:29 pm
Quote:

Republicans Are Going to Try the ‘Red Scare’ Strategy Again. Will It Work?

...Republicans are very likely to continue their attacks on Democrats as one big happy socialist family, forcing them either to fight over acceptance or rejection of the label or grin and bear it through a sustained red scare. In the end Donald Trump’s record and character may cast so large and ominous of a shadow over the country in 2020 that nobody much cares whether the candidate who challenges him is a firm capitalist-roader or something to the left of that. Indeed, while it’s very likely the 2020 Democratic presidential campaign will be significantly more out-front progressive than Hillary Clinton’s indistinct and largely negative 2016 effort — barring some shocking Hickenlooper boom in the primaries — it might be best for the party to postpone any struggle for its soul until Trump is gone. But without question, Trump’s MAGA legions will try to force the issue, loudly.
Ed Kilgore NYMag
 

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