Progressives (Liberals)

@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

Even though that's been the totality of arguments against liberal positions.

I don't believe that to be true.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

After that, though, you're just shoveling bullshit.

Let's see if anyone can point out any facts that I am wrong about.

Setanta wrote:

I don't recognize a category of "gun banners,"

There are plenty of people out there who call for banning assault weapons. And even a handful of people who say that we should ban as many guns as Australia and the UK do.

These people have been defeated. There will not be another assault weapon ban. We will certainly never do anything like Australia and the UK do.

Setanta wrote:

rather, there are people who want sensible gun control which will make mass killings more difficult.

People who oppose civil liberties always claim that it is sensible to do so.

Setanta wrote:

Now it's time for you to trot out your "freedom haters" line of bullshit.

When people try to violate civil liberties for fun, it is accurate to refer to them as freedom haters.

0 Replies

You cannot distinguish freedom from license. I've known this for a long time. The laws of the UK and Australia are irrelevant. As for what people may do "for fun," I've been pointing out for a long time that you are delusional.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

You cannot distinguish freedom from license. I've known this for a long time.

Sure I can. And free people do not require permission to exercise their rights.

Setanta wrote:

The laws of the UK and Australia are irrelevant.

Not when someone argues that we should adopt the same laws here.

Setanta wrote:

As for what people may do "for fun," I've been pointing out for a long time that you are delusional.

If the reason why some people try to ban pistol grips on rifles isn't because they find it fun to violate civil liberties, then what is the actual reason why these people try to ban pistol grips on rifles?

I don't think anyone can produce any other reason for banning pistol grips on rifles. But I'm always open to suggestions as to alternative motives.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

No, you cannot distinguish freedom from license--that is well established over time. I have not promoted adopting the same gun laws as the UK and Australia, so that's just your silly straw man.

Suggesting that people do things "for fun` is a childish, grade school playground type of taunt. You`ve made the same kind of silly claim to the effect that `liberals` want to see people starve `for fun.` Many conservatives want to see the WIC and food stamp programs ended, which would cause at least malnutrition if not actual starvation for American children. According to you, they must want to do that `for fun.`

Grow up.

1 Reply

@maporsche,

maporsche wrote:

edgarblythe wrote:

Even though that's been the totality of arguments against liberal positions.

I don't believe that to be true.

That argument has been made over and over in these pages. Probably the main other one has been whether or not a politician taking huge amounts of bribe money will really consider the best interests of the constituents.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

No, you cannot distinguish freedom from license--that is well established over time.

Sure I can. And free people do not require permission to exercise their rights.

Setanta wrote:

I have not promoted adopting the same gun laws as the UK and Australia, so that's just your silly straw man.

You are not the only person in the universe. There are people out there who do advocate that the US adopt such gun laws. Pointing out this reality is not a straw man.

Setanta wrote:

Suggesting that people do things "for fun` is a childish, grade school playground type of taunt.

If the reason why leftists try to ban pistol grips on rifles is anything other than the joy that they get from violating people's civil liberties, what is that alternative motivation?

I doubt that anyone can provide any motivation for doing this other than my suggestion that leftists think it is fun to violate civil liberties.

But as always, I'm listening if anyone wants to suggest a different motivation.

Setanta wrote:

You`ve made the same kind of silly claim to the effect that `liberals` want to see people starve `for fun.`

I have? I don't recall this. Is there a cite of me saying this?

Leftists do like to starve helpless civilians. Look at Stalin and Mao for example. I am unsure of their motivation though.

I guess I can't exclude the possibility that leftists do it for fun.

Setanta wrote:

Many conservatives want to see the WIC and food stamp programs ended, which would cause at least malnutrition if not actual starvation for American children. According to you, they must want to do that `for fun.`

No. I have never said any such thing.

Setanta wrote:

Grow up.

Feel free to try to cite an example of immature behavior on my part.

0 Replies

@blatham,

I don't see how anyone with two brain cells to rub together can believe that AOC wrote what she read at the hearing, she exhibited after the Amazon debacle that she knows nothing about business, didn't understand the tax break. So now she's has the experience to ask these insurance questions??? There has to be some elder(s) in the House trying to help her wither her crippled credibility, 'here honey, read this so you won't sound like a complete noob'.

I didn't hear anyone in the hearing order a latte, that she might have knowledge of.

1 Reply

@Brand X,

I think you sell her very short. A lot of people consider it a macro victory that the working people of NY aren’t going to be paying the richest man in the world about $30 mil of their tax dollars in exchange for Amazon’s low wage jobs being available to them.

I consider it a victory.

Billionaires must be swatted down. They need to pay their share. They need not to be lured with taxpayer’s dollars.

Ultimately, I want these multimillion dollar industries to break up into smaller, more local, more responsive companies.

AOC isn’t a Chomsky, but she’s no mercenary Clinton or stupid McCaskill either. She’s holding her own.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

Quote:

[AOC} deserves all the criticism she gets for her many fatuous statements, all given with her trademark childish enthusiasm.

Besides it doesn't do much to diminish the gift that keeps on giving.

Then by all means, continue. And to really add force and credibility to this campaign, you ought to use a figure from the conservative universe who represents the precise opposite. Someone, that is, who is keen of mind, educated, and sensible. A figure with real substance and gravitas. A figure who the right wing has supported and looked up to as a role model of the very best sort of political leader. Best choice here to really make your point would be Sarah Palin.

0 Replies

@Lash,

She can preserve stagnation and call it progress if she wants to, it doesn't calculate that way to me. It was a dumb move IMO.

1 Reply

@glitterbag,

Quote:

Well georgeob, it might be true that AOC doesn't have the sophistication and political savvy of say......a Sarah Palin.

Isn't that something. You'd think george might have realized he was hanging his ass over a wall with a target on it. Why didn't he? Memory hole.

0 Replies

@Brand X,

I agree with this.

Makes me happy though, as it at least gives Chicago another chance at luring Amazon (albeit a small one).

0 Replies

@edgarblythe,

I’ve seen the posts edgar. They just haven’t been compelling. It’s often innuendo, exaggerations, misrepresentations, and accusations. Often mirroring information on right wing troll sites.

There are many arguments from the left against the progressive policies that have nothing to do with incrementalism. There are many many more arguments from the center and the right that others have made.

To say the totally of arguments against progressive positions are due to some obsession with incrementalism for incrementalisms sake is simply false. If that’s what you’ve been getting from this board then either you’re not reading a bunch of people or a bunch of us are doing a piss poor job expressing ourselves.

Not to mention that a lot of people who have the same long term goals as you merely differ on how to market those goals to the electorate. You support a “burn the system down and build a new paradise” marketing approach and someone like me would prefer a “work within the system to change it to get what we want” marketing approach.

We should be working together, but my perception is that we are in opposition for some reason that I don’t fully understand.

1 Reply

For some time, the right has been raising the alarm that demographic changes may be leading to a society/nation where whites are no longer the majority. And that is perceived as a great risk to America's very survival as a democratic nation seeking liberty.

And one can sympathize with such a viewpoint. Because, obviously, the only group that should be allowed to hold demographic superiority is white people.

2 Replies

@maporsche,

I think you have it on the nose.

1 Reply

@blatham,

Make America Great Again (like it was in the past when white people had it waaaay better than everyone else)

1 Reply

WTF?

Quote:

JOSHUA JOHNSON (HOST): Give me your sense of what the White House should do here going forward, both with the policy toward North Korea and the messaging to the American people about how this is going.

SEBASTIAN GORKA: Well the messaging remains the same. The President and his team have been very clear that under the Obama administration you had a rocket launch from North Korea every 24 days. That's incredible.

MM

- NK had 10 missile launches prior to Obama taking office in Jan 2009

- There were 20 launches during the time Obama was in office

- There have been 20 launches from the point where Trump took office through end of November, 2017.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_North_Korean_missile_tests

There were 2,920 days where Obama was President.
If there was a missile test every 24 days, that would equal 122 missile tests during Obama's tenure.

I'm beginning to think Gorka is no an honest man. That would be rare and unexpected.

0 Replies

@maporsche,

Whites, like christians, sit on the very edge of extinction.

I'm particularly fond of the anxious complaints from the christian right that their faith is at risk of disappearing what with universities, the gay agenda and the war on christmas. And we can all seee this in our communities every day as we drive and drive and drive and almost never see any churches. On the other hand, though, in that same drive we'll probably see 20 or 30 or more Atheist Halls. They sometimes seem to be on every third or fourth street corner. You've all seen this. And Christianity Today has the data

Quote:

An estimated 30,000 congregations shut their doors in the United States from 2006 to 2012. Yet a recent study finds good news for churches overall—including the lowest closure rate of any American institution.

According to a recent paper published by sociologist Simon Brauer in the Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion, the number of religious congregations in the United States has increased by almost 50,000 since 1998. A key reason: growth in nondenominational churches.

Using the National Congregations Study (NCS) conducted in 2006 and 2012, he estimates the number of congregations in the US increased from 336,000 in 1998 to a peak of 414,000 in 2006, but then leveled off at 384,000 in 2012.

There are nearly half a ******* million congregations in the US.

0 Replies

This individual is really an inspiring instance of rigorous intellect

Quote:

Right Wing Watch
‏Verified account
@RightWingWatch
Candace Owens tells #CPAC2019 that racism and oppression are not actual problems in America because "I've never been a slave in this country."

Here's another

Quote:

Jared Holt
‏@jaredlholt
Candace Owens accuses Kamala Harris of pandering to POC by saying she smoked weed and listened to hip hop

Because if you want to message the colored folks, you have to talk about the stuff that coloreds really love, weed and hiphop.

1 Reply

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