blatham
 
  3  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2019 01:55 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
We’re not gonna get out of this through incrementalism. We need moonshots.
We need both, I would argue. For example, the GND is a welcome call to move now and to move fast. But once such bills get written and then move into the machinery of government, the sailing isn't going to be smooth. Anyone hoping for large scale change immediately is just not going to get what they want. And that concerns me. One of the key aspects of the civil rights movment, the gay rights movement or the women's movement has been patience, knowing that change does not come quickly. We will not be benefited by apathy arising from naive impatience and we certainly won't be benefited by left factions warring with each other.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2019 02:27 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

AOC is going places. Which means that right wing media will continue to attack her every day in an attempt to blunt her appeal. If you want to bet on anything, bet on that.

I suspect AOC will herself blunt or limit her appeal to most voters. She and her companion from Minneapolis are a great (and undeserved) political gift to President Trump.
edgarblythe
 
  0  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2019 02:49 pm
@blatham,
Well at last somebody on the incrementalism side finally admits the increments alone are not working.
blatham
 
  4  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2019 02:57 pm
@georgeob1,
Odd then that the entire right wing media universe is concentrating on diminishing this wonderful gift to them.

Edited to add
Quote:
Dave Weigel
‏Verified account
@daveweigel
The Democrat appearing in CPAC videos and speeches the most, by far: @AOC. More than any 2020 Dem. An Oliver North-narrated NRA video just ended with the footage of her dancing outside her office, with the color drained to make it look more ominous.
6:35 AM - 28 Feb 2019

blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2019 03:02 pm
@edgarblythe,
It's the tutelage from yourself, edgar.

Sometimes, we have to rethink and recalibrate. If that's not happening, then we've likely stopped learning.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2019 03:28 pm
@blatham,
I never was against incremental change for the better. Just didn't agree with making it the total focus.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2019 03:29 pm
@edgarblythe,
I think we should get married.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2019 03:30 pm
@blatham,
My wife said it's not feasible. She thinks I should get another dog instead.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2019 03:39 pm
@edgarblythe,
I'll wear a fur muff and bark.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  4  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2019 03:46 pm
Is a sustained propaganda program effective?

Check out these polling results. Note that, for one example, less than 1/2 of Republicans polled think it would be serious if Trump is obstructing the Mueller investigation.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0gFqn8WkAAroHX.png
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2019 03:54 pm
Propaganda too long prolonged, with no positive benefit to the deceived, must wear thin, eventually. But is four years a long enough period?
blatham
 
  3  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2019 04:21 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
But is four years a long enough period?
That would depend on a number of factors differing in different situations. In the case we are looking at, no, four years has been not nearly enough.

There's a fundamental foundation to almost every aspect of right wing propaganda we've been witnessing for decades now. That is the promulgation of the idea that the mainstream media is so biased in favor of Dems that a separate media system needs to exist as a matter of fairness and truth discovery. And not only does it need to exist and operate, but most anything it does or any extremes it reaches deserves to be excused because of the size and mendacity of MS media.

And a core belief that has been fostered here is that "the MS media can't be trusted to tell you the truth". This core belief is what has captured millions of Americans in a closed bubble of information (very often, misinformation).

I don't know how America fixes this. It might not. But we can at least better understand what's going on.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2019 04:54 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
With the population of Norway, their rate of mass shootings could be established by one incident in which ten to twelve people were killed. The lower rate in the United States yields hundreds killed in many incidents. It is a manipulation of statistical data which actually establishes no baseline for a reasonable judgment.
So the complaint is that there are not enough samples in the smaller countries to be statistically significant?

Setanta wrote:
Given your prejudices, however, this kind of silly statistical trickery appeals to you, I'm sure.
Nah. I prefer solid facts. Relying solely on hard facts means that no one can prove me wrong.

Also, I've no need for trickery. The gun banners are defeated. I've already won.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2019 04:55 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:
they clearly felt the need to continue the "witchhunt!" big lie full bore so as not to weaken that over-arching propaganda theme.
I realize that the truth is highly inconvenient for the left, but facts are not lies.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2019 05:00 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Odd then that the entire right wing media universe is concentrating on diminishing this wonderful gift to them.


She deserves all the criticism she gets for her many fatuous statements, all given with her trademark childish enthusiasm.

Besides it doesn't do much to diminish the gift that keeps on giving.
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2019 05:55 pm
@edgarblythe,
I think of MLK and Malcolm yelling about incrementalism over 40 damn years ago, and I’ve begun to really despise the word and the people who advocate it...

In everything of any importance.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  3  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2019 05:59 pm
@edgarblythe,
Hmmmm.

I’ve been reading your posts for quite a while and this is FAR from the impression you’ve left with me.

And I don’t know anybody who is a slave to incrementalism, not do I know anybody who makes it the total focus.
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2019 06:10 pm
@oralloy,
I'll give you credit for recognizing the statistical insignificance of the samples from countries with small populations. After that, though, you're just shoveling bullshit. I don't recognize a category of "gun banners," rather, there are people who want sensible gun control which will make mass killings more difficult.

Now it's time for you to trot out your "freedom haters" line of bullshit.
edgarblythe
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2019 06:29 pm
@maporsche,
Even though that's been the totality of arguments against liberal positions.
glitterbag
 
  3  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2019 06:36 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

blatham wrote:

AOC is going places. Which means that right wing media will continue to attack her every day in an attempt to blunt her appeal. If you want to bet on anything, bet on that.

I suspect AOC will herself blunt or limit her appeal to most voters. She and her companion from Minneapolis are a great (and undeserved) political gift to President Trump.


Well georgeob, it might be true that AOC doesn't have the sophistication and political savvy of say......a Sarah Palin. But for the time being, she is responsible to her constituents, not me, not you or any of the other folks who resent her youth. I'm much more worried about congressmen like Matt Gaetz who are so desperate to establish their thug creds, they will tweet out threats to people appearing before congress. I hope the warm glow he feels can sustain his ego while the Florida Bar investigates. Because nothing makes you feel more like a man than when you smear another man's wife and blast it out on Twitter.
 

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