Progressives (Liberals)

@Brand X,

If you want Trump to win, keep up insulting leftists.

2 Replies

@Olivier5,

Yes, I'm sure I alone will swing the result.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

If you want Trump to win, keep up insulting leftists.

I’m having trouble. Could you point out the insult in his post?

1 Reply

@maporsche,

"poster child for 'socialism' "

"The potential winner will be someone normal" (thus implying Bernie is abnormal)

It may seem counter-intuitive to some, but I do believe that if they want to win against Trump this time (and it's not going to be easy), Democrats and left-leaning people should support one another, tolerate differences of opinion within the left, and act as a team against Trump.

1 Reply

The criticism of Sanders for using private planes rather than flying commercial is bogus. But it is totally unsurprising.

As I've noted before, a primary attack strategy in politics is to find the opposition candidates strengths and then set to any narrative that suggests the person is actually weak or not credible in this thing. It turns from spin to propaganda where the motivation is to deceive. And this particular case is, obviously, a repeat of what was done to Al Gore for flying by jet.

1 Reply

@Brand X,

You can indeed change the outcome, not by yourself, but by showing a good, positive example that may inspire other people around you. In other words, you can chose to be part of the solution. OR you can decide to keep on injecting negativity in the debate on the left, thus helping Trump win again.

It takes a village.

0 Replies

@Olivier5,

There you are misrepresenting quotes...again.

THAT is the true insult.

Can you stop doing that? You’re hurting the cause by creating divisiveness where there wasn’t any.

1 Reply

@blatham,

Of course it’s bogus.

The problem with being the front runner is that you get bogus charges levied at you all the time. It serves to change the perception of the candidate. Over time, sometimes these branding methods can work. Of course you get some accurate criticisms too.

1 Reply

Tomorrow is going to open up a memory hole the size of the dungeon where Trump's barber is being held incommunicado.

https://s.newsweek.com/sites/www.newsweek.com/files/styles/embed_tablet/public/2018/12/12/sean-hannity-michael-cohen.png

Quote:

Judge Kimba Wood had run out of patience. Lawyers for Michael Cohen, Donald Trump’s consigliere and legal fixer, had tried every trick in the book to avoid disclosing the name of a mystery Cohen client, who they said was desperate to remain anonymous.

“I’m directing you to disclose the name – now,” said the veteran jurist.

Stephen Ryan, Cohen’s hangdog lead attorney, got to his feet and cleared his throat. “The client’s name that is involved is Sean Hannity,” he said. Gasps filled courtroom 21B at the federal courthouse in lower Manhattan.

Hannity, the bloviating primetime star of Fox News and Trump’s favorite journalist, had excoriated US prosecutors for their raid on Cohen’s office earlier this month. The raid was part of a “an all-hands-on-deck effort to totally malign and, if possible, impeach the president of the United States”.

He failed to mention his relationship with Cohen, something even guests on his own show have since criticized and an omission that has thrust him into a media maelstrom.

Guardian

Quote:

When The New York Times reported Cohen could cooperate with federal officials, Trump took to Twitter and defended his longtime (and, by then, former) personal attorney, while taking shots at the media outlet.

Cohen, he said, was “a fine person with a wonderful family” and, as a businessman, Trump said he had “always liked and respected” him.

Fortune

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@maporsche,

Yup

0 Replies

@maporsche,

For the record, I don't like liars and I don't like being called one, especially by people who can't be bothered proving their accusations.

Did you come up with one single issue where you would welcome some bold change, in the end?

2 Replies

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

For the record, I don't like liars and I don't like being called one, especially by people who can't be bothered proving their accusations.

You are lying by purposeful omission (you purposefully removed the parts of his post that didn’t support your contention that he was insulting Sanders or his supporters). You even removed parts of sentences. That’s not debatable. That is a FACT, son.

He said Sanders will be the poster child for socialism by Trump and his supporters. This is already true. Already this is happening. I can bring in some quotes from republicans and many memes online if you want to see him as a literal “poster child” in meme form.

He also said that a normal, bland(er) candidate will win. This is an opinion but it certainly isn’t insulting. Normal means usual, typical, expected. Sanders himself (and certainly his supporters) will gladly tell you that he is not the normal politician. This is a point of pride for him and his supporters.

But here YOU are, misrepresenting his post. Creating division where there was none intended. You’re still doing it with me.

Keep it up, and you can help get Trump elected.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Did you come up with one single issue where you would welcome some bold change, in the end?

I gave you a couple issues already where I would welcome bold change to happen (Medicare for all and climate change). I think I’d add gun control to that list.

1 Reply

@maporsche,

Okay so implying that someone is abnormal or describing him as a "poster child for 'socialism'" is not an insult in your book. Fine. What about saying that AOC is similar to Trump in her contempt of facts? Does that qualify as an insult, or is itjust an 'opinion'? Cause Brand said that in a recent post to which I also objected to...

1 Reply

@maporsche,

Okay so what kind of bold changes would you welcome on Medicare, then?

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

It’s not insulting in Sanders or his supporters book either (ask them), just in your “I’m trying to be divisive and attacking other posters because I’m bored mind”.

Comparing anyone to Trump can be insulting. I thumbed up your post about AOC caring more about facts than Trump does. It’s also an opinion though, but the tone could come off as insulting.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

What I’d like to see for healthcare ultimately is something along the lines of (this list isn’t comprehensive and there are a lot of details left out - this is off the cuff)

- small copays (depending on income) at point of service (to help curb abuse) except for preventative care
- basic coverage paid for by government
- supplemental insurance optional for those who want it
- employer provided healthcare eliminated (replaces with government provided plan)
- some sort of incentive for patients to price shop for services to help keep costs down
- health coverage paid for through employer and income taxes

- on the supply side, make it easier to go to nurse practitioners or do healthcare visits virtually.
- have doctors malpractice insurance covered by the government health care budget
- make medical school free and easier to get into to keep up with demand

I’m open to other ideas though too; I’ve never been an absolutist.

1 Reply

Ben Shapiro is one of the sleaziest conservatives around

Quote:

Ben Shapiro
‏Verified account
@benshapiro
The Jewish people has always been plagued by Bad Jews, who undermine it from within. In America, those Bad Jews largely vote Democrat.
6:48 AM - 8 Nov 2011

As Glenn Kessler notes

Quote:

Glenn Kessler
‏Verified account
@GlennKesslerWP
Of note: 70-80 percent of American Jews vote for Democrats. So that means lots of "Bad Jews"? https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-voting-record-in-u-s-presidential-elections …

0 Replies

@maporsche,

The overal point is that Democrats should keep their sharpest attacks for Trump, and refrain from ad hominem towards other Dems or similar. I felt that Brand X was a bit too rabid in his 'opinions' about AOC and Sanders, and honnestly thought I needed to make a mention of it. Sorry if that irked you.

1 Reply

@maporsche,

Sounds pretty rational to me. A state-managed basic coverage helps keep drug and hospital prices down, while a private insurance "complement" provides flexibility in the system for those who want better coverage.

As per France's experience, the copay has to be non-negligeable to have an impact on behavior, eg around 20-25% of the total cost. I'm aware that neither Italy nor the UK require a copay, but I think that it encourages patients to abuse the system, or just access the service "to be on the safe side".

0 Replies

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